1 Vancouver Canucks vs 8 Los Angeles Kings

[Kin]

Burke said he was not interested in trading the kids just to make the playoffs.  He didn't say he didn't want the 8th seed just that he would not trade the future to get it.  You guys have blasted him forever for re-tooling vs re-building and when he won't trade the future for the present you still complain.

It's something that's probably better left for the Burke thread but my issue is with Burke speaking as if it's a foregone conclusion that anything predictable will happen in the playoffs as opposed to any specific moves he did or didn't make.

A team that makes the playoffs is taking a run at the Cup. An 8 seed has a slightly tougher run than most but it's not Cujo and the Oilers vs. Roy and the Avalanche anymore.

 

[Bates]

But Burke was speaking about the Leafs and the Leafs sqeuaking into the playoffs would have been a very long shot to make much of a dent in the 1st seed.

 

[Kin]

But Burke was speaking about the Leafs and the Leafs sqeuaking into the playoffs would have been a very long shot to make much of a dent in the 1st seed.

Well, not to state the obvious but I think it's pretty fair to say that if the Leafs had made the changes to their team that would have resulted in them being good enough to make the playoffs, or roughly as good as the Sens, then they'd have had as much of a chance to make a dent against the Rangers as the Sens had.

I mean, I don't know about you but I'm guessing the Rangers feel pretty damn dented these days.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

But Burke was speaking about the Leafs and the Leafs sqeuaking into the playoffs would have been a very long shot to make much of a dent in the 1st seed.

Well, not to state the obvious but I think it's pretty fair to say that if the Leafs had made the changes to their team that would have resulted in them being good enough to make the playoffs, or roughly as good as the Sens, then they'd have had as much of a chance to make a dent against the Rangers as the Sens had.

I mean, I don't know about you but I'm guessing the Rangers feel pretty damn dented these days.

The other part of the equation, however, remains the (unknown to us) long-term price to be paid for the mere possibility of making the 8th spot.  A trade of significant picks/prospects to acquire a short-term player or players that has the team either still fail to make the playoffs, or to make the playoffs and drop out in the first or second round, is still a poor trade.

Burke knows full well that 8th seeds sometimes/rarely win in the first round, as we all know.  But he also knows that, in the end, mediocre teams don't win the Cup and they rarely advance very far in the playoffs, if they advance at all.

 

[Kin]

The other part of the equation, however, remains the (unknown to us) long-term price to be paid for the mere possibility of making the 8th spot.  A trade of significant picks/prospects to acquire a short-term player or players that has the team either still fail to make the playoffs, or to make the playoffs and drop out in the first or second round, is still a poor trade.

That's partially true. It's risky to make a trade to increase a team's chances of making the playoffs, no denying it. Framed in that context and considering we're in the dark about any potential deals that could have been made you can absolutely make a compelling argument against making a hypothetical trade.

But, again, that's not really what I'm responding to.

Burke knows full well that 8th seeds sometimes/rarely win in the first round, as we all know.  But he also knows that, in the end, mediocre teams don't win the Cup and they rarely advance very far in the playoffs, if they advance at all.

The fact that we could lose both #1 seeds is because the Canucks and Rangers aren't titans. The last time a #8 seed really got their "asses kicked" is probably the Canadiens in 08-09. That means that we're closer to a #8 seed making it within two wins of a cup(edit: that's not true. I remembered the 09-10 Flyers as an #8 seed but they were a 7. That said they were tied with the Canadiens in points that year and only got the 7 on the tiebreak so I think the point is still a fair one) than we are of one really having their lunch handed to them. The parity that we see in this league means nobody's immune to having their weaknesses exploited.

Way I see it? They're all mediocre teams. Some are just more so.

 

[Zee]

Burke said he was not interested in trading the kids just to make the playoffs.  He didn't say he didn't want the 8th seed just that he would not trade the future to get it.  You guys have blasted him forever for re-tooling vs re-building and when he won't trade the future for the present you still complain.

Burke is full of hot air.  He keeps saying the Leafs could have made the playoffs each of the last 3 seasons if he just traded away the future for veterans.  Right.  He has no idea what it takes to make the playoffs by viewing the on-ice product he's put together.  He thought we were already a playoff team and were ready to begin "running" in his opinion.

 

[Bates]

Unless the trade was for a goalie who could steal a bunch of games then I think Burke was right that we would be easy roadkill for the team we faced in the first round.  I am sure if it was a championship calibre goalie that was offered to Burke at the trade deadline he would have sold the farm to make the deal happen.

 

[Kin]

Unless the trade was for a goalie who could steal a bunch of games then I think Burke was right that we would be easy roadkill for the team we faced in the first round.  I am sure if it was a championship calibre goalie that was offered to Burke at the trade deadline he would have sold the farm to make the deal happen.

A championship calibre goalie like Craig Anderson?

 

[maplesyrup]

Yeah, a goalie like Anderson. He's miles ahead of anything we have for various reasons. I'm not sure you can just "go out and get" a guy like that at the deadline - even if he's not a top goalie.

Edit: I'm fairly sure the vast majority of deals involving starters are a summer thing.

 

[Bates]

Numbers don't lie Nik, Anderson is 6th in playoff GAA average and has played all season light years above anyone in our system.

 

[Kin]

Yeah, a goalie like Anderson. He's miles ahead of anything we have for various reasons. I'm not sure you can just "go out and get" a guy like that at the deadline - even if he's not a top goalie.

Edit: I'm fairly sure the vast majority of deals involving starters are a summer thing.

Anderson himself was dealt in February to the Sens.

 

[maplesyrup]

Anderson himself was dealt in February to the Sens.

Well, that's one in a row! Anyway, my point stands.

 

[maplesyrup]

Also, this Leaf team is so weak that acquiring a starter probably leaves too many other holes for a even a whimsical run at anything.

 

[Kin]

Numbers don't lie Nik, Anderson is 6th in playoff GAA average and has played all season light years above anyone in our system.

Well, leaving aside the obvious like GAA over 6 games being kind of a terrible metric, the fact that he's playing well in the playoffs despite not playing terrifically well in the regular season is my point. You don't need a championship calibre goalie to win in the playoffs, you can have Craig Anderson. Unless of course your point is that a "championship calibre goalie" isn't really saying much these days in which I'm not sure what you're saying. He's a fairly mediocre goalie capable of going on a good run. That's not exceptional and I don't think you can just assume a goalie of that calibre wasn't available.

 

[Kin]

Anderson himself was dealt in February to the Sens.

Well, that's one in a row! Anyway, my point stands.

Not really. He's not that great. Guys like him get traded.

 

[maplesyrup]

Anderson himself was dealt in February to the Sens.

Well, that's one in a row! Anyway, my point stands.

Not really. He's not that great. Guys like him get traded.

No, not really and when they do, it's usually post-season. Seriously, we were learning a new system minus our second best forward in Lupul where our third best forward was galaxies away in terms of doing anything. The defence was/is laughable and even if God miracled a Craig Anderson to us, it wouldn't have made a nickel's bit of difference. 

 

[Kin]

No, not really and when they do, it's usually post-season.

Contradiction is not argument.

Seriously, we were learning a new system minus our second best forward in Lupul where our third best forward was galaxies away in terms of doing anything. The defence was/is laughable and even if God miracled a Craig Anderson to us, it wouldn't have made a nickel's bit of difference.

Well, I'd say it says something about your penchant for hilarious overstatement that a goalie of Craig Anderson's talent being available would count as a miracle in your world but, well, I know better at this point and will instead try to return this to the fact that nobody is saying that the Leafs going from where they were to a playoff team is the difference that one player would make.

 

[maplesyrup]

Contradiction is not argument.

So stop doing it?

 

[Kin]

So stop doing it?

I'm actually using examples to support my statements. That is argument.

 

[maplesyrup]

Well, I'd say it says something about your penchant for hilarious overstatement that a goalie of Craig Anderson's talent being available would count as a miracle in your world but, well, I know better at this point and will instead try to return this to the fact that nobody is saying that the Leafs going from where they were to a playoff team is the difference that one player would make.

Ah, now you're following! Finally! It would have taken a bunch of similar transactions to get this team team to the playoffs at the deadline (maybe.) - And that's assuming players were available to Burke and at the cost he's pay. The fact remains is that this team is/was too far deficient in just about everything to make them much better immediately and not totally empty the cupboards to do so.