2012 CBA Negotiations Thread

[bustaheims]

Get comfortable, everyone. This isn't getting settled any time soon:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/article/1268562--nhl-lockout-donald-fehr-player-growing-unhappy-with-salary-cap?

Donald Fehr expressed some hope that collective bargaining talks this week will help lead to some resolution.

But he also made it clear in an hour-long meeting with the Toronto Star?s editorial board that the longer the NHL lockout lasts, the less happy the players will be playing under a salary cap.

 

[maplesyrup]

Damien Cox ‏@DamoSpin
Pretty sure NHL owners would be willing to swap salary cap for end to guaranteed contracts. In a heartbeat.

That's interesting. How would this help smaller markets though?

 

[AvroArrow]

I gave up on the season a long time ago.  If there was an alternative league, I'd have already switched and would never look back.

 

[Corn Flake]

Damien Cox ‏@DamoSpin
Pretty sure NHL owners would be willing to swap salary cap for end to guaranteed contracts. In a heartbeat.

That's interesting. How would this help smaller markets though?

Luxury tax?  Works in baseball....

 

[maplesyrup]

Damien Cox ‏@DamoSpin
Pretty sure NHL owners would be willing to swap salary cap for end to guaranteed contracts. In a heartbeat.

That's interesting. How would this help smaller markets though?

Luxury tax?  Works in baseball....

Perhaps.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Damien Cox ‏@DamoSpin
Pretty sure NHL owners would be willing to swap salary cap for end to guaranteed contracts. In a heartbeat.

That's interesting. How would this help smaller markets though?

I have a hard time believing the players would be ok with the end of guaranteed contracts.

 

[bustaheims]

I have a hard time believing the players would be ok with the end of guaranteed contracts.

Well, that's sort of the point there. If they're serious about doing away with the cap, they'll have to make a major concession to get the owners to agree to that kind of deal, and, the only thing that would likely work would be non-guaranteed contracts. It would be both sides getting something they want by sacrificing something significant.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

How do non-guaranteed contracts work in the NFL (that's the only other league that has them, right?). Can a team scrap a contract at any point? Is there some form of a buyout involved?

 

[Kin]

How do non-guaranteed contracts work in the NFL (that's the only other league that has them, right?). Can a team scrap a contract at any point? Is there some form of a buyout involved?

Well, that's the thing. All the other leagues have the option of not guaranteeing part of a contract and the NFL, for all of the talk about non-guaranteed contracts, still guarantees a percentage of most deals in terms of cash. It just tends to be a significantly lower percentage negotiated into each individual deal. But team options, which are pretty common in Baseball, are just a way of saying that a part of a contract isn't guaranteed.

That's why I doubt what Cox says. Unless you have some sort of iron-clad agreement as to how much of each contract is guaranteed in terms of the total dollars then I assume the owners wouldn't want to go near non-guaranteed contracts as some sort of big win for them. Given their propensity towards restraint and sound decision making in the past they'd have to know that big market teams could almost immediately set the market by guaranteeing most or all of a contract to a free agent.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I have a hard time believing the players would be ok with the end of guaranteed contracts.

Well, that's sort of the point there. If they're serious about doing away with the cap, they'll have to make a major concession to get the owners to agree to that kind of deal, and, the only thing that would likely work would be non-guaranteed contracts. It would be both sides getting something they want by sacrificing something significant.

Oh I completely agree that it would take something drastic to make the cap go away.

 

[Deebo]

I gave up on the season a long time ago.  If there was an alternative league, I'd have already switched and would never look back.

I really can't see either side actually willing to do away with the entire season over what seems to be the issue this time around, despite the hard line stance they are trying to take in the media.

Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I really think this is going to get worked out in time to have a season.

 

[Peter D.]

I gave up on the season a long time ago.  If there was an alternative league, I'd have already switched and would never look back.

I really can't see either side actually willing to do away with the entire season over what seems to be the issue this time around, despite the hard line stance they are trying to take in the media.

Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I really think this is going to get worked out in time to have a season.

The NHLPA has been strong and unified up to this point, but I fully expect to see cracks now that they will start losing salary with the season due to have started tomorrow.

 

[Frank E]

So Alberta says no to NHLPA challenge that lockout is illegal.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=407152

 

[Corn Flake]

I gave up on the season a long time ago.  If there was an alternative league, I'd have already switched and would never look back.

I really can't see either side actually willing to do away with the entire season over what seems to be the issue this time around, despite the hard line stance they are trying to take in the media.

Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I really think this is going to get worked out in time to have a season.

The NHLPA has been strong and unified up to this point, but I fully expect to see cracks now that they will start losing salary with the season due to have started tomorrow.

Alan Walsh's head has exploded like NINE time since Sept 1.  He's doing his best to remind everyone he's not getting paid either.  Even the media (Dreger) are telling him to shut up.

What an idiot.

In general, IMO, the more the players yell about Gary the more it's just pent up frustration towards the whole thing and not just about him. He's an easy target but the frustration is already quite high and yeah they are going to start turning on themselves real soon.  Owners too.  I'm sure there are several who are letting it be known behind closed doors how much they despise this lockout.

 

[bustaheims]

In general, IMO, the more the players yell about Gary the more it's just pent up frustration towards the whole thing and not just about him. He's an easy target but the frustration is already quite high and yeah they are going to start turning on themselves real soon.  Owners too.  I'm sure there are several who are letting it be known behind closed doors how much they despise this lockout.

I'm not sure there's going to be that level of descent among the owners. While I'm sure there are some that don't like the lockout, for the overwhelming majority of them, the revenues they're missing out on are pretty insignificant in comparison to those of their other businesses and investments. My guess is most of the owners see more in monthly revenue from other streams than they do from an entire season of NHL hockey.

The players, on the other hand, will almost all experience pretty significant decreases in their income levels.

 

[Kin]

I'm not sure there's going to be that level of descent among the owners. While I'm sure there are some that don't like the lockout, for the overwhelming majority of them, the revenues they're missing out on are pretty insignificant in comparison to those of their other businesses and investments. My guess is most of the owners see more in monthly revenue from other streams than they do from an entire season of NHL hockey.

But I think that's sort of the point. Leaving aside the owners who are making significant money from the NHL there's a lot of them for whom the financial wranglings are almost irrelevant to why they own hockey teams.

 

[Frank E]

I'm not sure there's going to be that level of descent among the owners. While I'm sure there are some that don't like the lockout, for the overwhelming majority of them, the revenues they're missing out on are pretty insignificant in comparison to those of their other businesses and investments. My guess is most of the owners see more in monthly revenue from other streams than they do from an entire season of NHL hockey.

But I think that's sort of the point. Leaving aside the owners who are making significant money from the NHL there's a lot of them for whom the financial wranglings are almost irrelevant to why they own hockey teams.

You've mentioned this a few times, and so I'd like to ask, which NHL owners don't care about making money in the NHL?

 

[bustaheims]

But I think that's sort of the point. Leaving aside the owners who are making significant money from the NHL there's a lot of them for whom the financial wranglings are almost irrelevant to why they own hockey teams.

Considering this is mostly the same group that was willing to sacrifice an entire season not that long ago, I'd say that their other interests in the NHL aren't likely to be sufficient enough to cause much, if any, descent, and almost certainly not enough to cause any sort of noticeable rift among the owners.

 

[Kin]

You've mentioned this a few times, and so I'd like to ask, which NHL owners don't care about making money in the NHL?

You mean in my estimation or just the ones who've actually said so publicly?

 

[Kin]

Considering this is mostly the same group that was willing to sacrifice an entire season not that long ago, I'd say that their other interests in the NHL aren't likely to be sufficient enough to cause much, if any, descent, and almost certainly not enough to cause any sort of noticeable rift among the owners.

Well, I could be wrong but just at a quick count I counted 15 teams with new owners since the last lockout so I wouldn't be all that sure about that sort of continuity. Admittedly, that includes Phoenix and Minnesota who have owners who were still involved in the last lockout but still.

That said, I'm not counting or predicting on any particular level of dissent from the owners just that what you were saying flips both ways. Yes, players are going to care more about drawing their paychecks but they're also going to care more in general. If I'm the owner of the Rangers/Leafs I have a very real financial reason for wanting the NHL to be being played. As for the others, I don't think that many of them are going to live and die by a few extra points of revenue.