2015 NHL Entry Draft

[Kin]

You think Fletcher and Quinn were patient?

Quinn was as patient as ownership would let him be, yes. With him running the show the team mostly kept their top picks and used them on players they were patient with. How many people yelled at the time for them to move on from Antropov? How many people doubted Kaberle's ability in his own end?

From '97 to 2002 the team drafted and developed well. That's a major reason why the team was good.

Stavros wasn't any different than any of the other owners.

Really? Stavros wasn't any different from Ballard? Keep digging man.

I question why you continue to oppose the proposal that characteristics present in ownership before the Ballard era persist today.

That doesn't even make sense. Before the Ballard era the team was unquestionably successful. Even by your nutty standards.

Just in the last week or so I find articles in the media that discuss "culture change"; or refer to "a unique dynamic in Toronto"; or a player's time in Toronto described as "...his confidence was drained...he was a shadow of himself...". This has been going on for 45+ years. You don't even have to read between between the lines.

Ah yes, the Toronto hockey media. The unquestionable tellers of truth.

You keep talking about success, coming in second place isn't success.

In which case there are multiple teams who've gone the same amount of time without success. Why hasn't Buffalo ever been successful? Vancouver? St. Louis? What are their unique dynamics? What are the unique dynamics that have affected every expansion team other than the Ducks and Lightning in the last 25 years?

Why haven't the Rangers had a Hart winner since 1959? Why haven't the Blackhawks had one since 1968? Why have the Devils never had one? Or anyone in the history of the Stars or Flames franchises?

More to the point what does it really prove? Doug Gilmour didn't win the Hart trophy in '93 because maybe the greatest player to ever play the game had his greatest ever season. If Lemieux had been hurt that year...would that have meant the dynamic would have been different in Toronto? Curtis Joseph similarly lost out to the greatest goalie of all time for the Vezina in '99. What difference does that make? If Mike Johnson had scored five more points in '98 he might have won the Calder. How in the world do any of those things reflect on upper management and, more to the point, who the hell cares?

The narrower and narrower you make your definition of "success" the more and more teams will fail to reach it. Makes this "unique" dynamic pretty common.

Just recently the local papers ran a story about a survivor of the Titanic tragedy....

See, I was going to Shelbyville to get a new heel for my shoe. Now, back in those days the Ferry to shelbyville cost a nickel and nickels used to have pictures of bees on them. Give me five bees for a quarter you'd say. Now, the important thing to remember is that I was wearing an onion on my belt. We didn't have white onions because of the war...

You seem to be the type that has to have the last word.

Yes, I'm certainly the one who keeps bringing this topic up after it's been dead for a week.

The only people who accuse me of wanting to get the last word in are people who are doing the exact same thing. It's transparent.

 

[KadriFan]

So how many here think Marner will be a Leaf.  Never saw him play much this season but some are saying he's the second most talented player in the draft.

 

[L K]

So how many here think Marner will be a Leaf.  Never saw him play much this season but some are saying he's the second most talented player in the draft.

Obviously with the caveat that I have seen very little of the players outside of the OHL, I don't disagree with the sentiment.  He's extremely skilled and he is a hard worker.  I think his size is grossly overstated as a flaw as he is a guy who will hit the gym and do the right things to be effective.  I think the big question is whether he is going to play up the middle or on the wing.  We don't know how often the Leafs will draft in the top 5 over the next few years but one of their big needs to support down the middle.  Dylan Strome is a pretty darn good player and I think when you average the two players out (size, skill, potential) there really isn't a lot separating them so it might be in the Leafs interest to grab that guy up the middle while they have the chance rather than take another smaller guy who might end up as a winger to go along with other small players in Connor Brown, Nazem Kadri, William Nylander, Morgan Rielly.

What the last few years have shown is that you need a good combination of size and skill...or at least a mediocre team with one of the best goaltenders of all time.

 

[AvroArrow]

I'm guessing Strome or Hanifin, whichever Arizona doesn't pick.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

I get an an tripod feeling from Strome. That's not a bad thing necessarily, but it scares me as a top 4 pick.

I'm personally hoping for Marner.

 

[ZBBM]

If Kessel and Semin end up on the same team whether here or there the universe will start spinning upside down.

 

[KadriFan]

I get an an tripod feeling from Strome. That's not a bad thing necessarily, but it scares me as a top 4 pick.

I'm personally hoping for Marner.

Me too. 

 

[Highlander]

Me gut is telling me it will be Gran Marner. He is Hunters boy and seems to have more raw talent than Strome. Regarding Hanifin, I really don't want to draft a US college d man, although he may turn out to be a stud.

 

[sneakyray]

If Kessel and Semin end up on the same team whether here or there the universe will start spinning upside down.

also, would it be tough for E staal and phaneuf after the puck shooting incident last year?

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

I get an an tripod feeling from Strome. That's not a bad thing necessarily, but it scares me as a top 4 pick.

I'm personally hoping for Marner.

Me too.

And by tripod I meant Antropov. Spell check.

 

[Kin]

I just really don't see the team passing on Strome or Hanifin. I wouldn't be upset with Marner and I think drafting for need at this point is a little ahead of where they're at but I think you want to inject as much variety into the system as possible and "super skilled but smallish and probably a winger and not a center" seems an awful lot like Nylander.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Auston Matthews has signed to play in Switzerland next season.

He will now be considered a European prospect and be eligible for the AHL at 18 without it burning a year of his ELC.

 

[Highlander]

Dubas mantra is choosing the most skilled player regardless of position, he says the days of drafting for positional needs are over, they will take the most gifted player even admitting the glaring need at Centre.
In any case we are going to get a top player.
Going to be a great draft day, can't wait.

 

[Kin]

Auston Matthews has signed to play in Switzerland next season.

He will now be considered a European prospect and be eligible for the AHL at 18 without it burning a year of his ELC.

Seems similar to what Brandon Jennings and Emmanuel Mudjay have done in basketball in recent years. Pretty hard to argue with if they're going to be making decent scratch and living in a pretty nice part of the world.

 

[Highlander]

Yes Swiss Cheese, dark chocolate, unregistered bank account and climbing the Mattahorn. Whats not to like?

 

[Highlander]

We are going to pick either Strome, Marner or Hanifin. Are any of them NHL ready or will all of them have to go to the AHL?

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

We are going to pick either Strome, Marner or Hanifin. Are any of them NHL ready or will all of them have to go to the AHL?

I'd say Strome and Hanifin could play in the NHL next year but what's the point?

Ideally the team moves Phaneuf/Kessel for some nice young assets or picks, commits to the suck and lets Strome/Marner/Hanifin develop with the rest of the future players of this team (Nylander/Brown/Leivo et al).

 

[Pick]

You think Fletcher and Quinn were patient?

Quinn was as patient as ownership would let him be, yes. With him running the show the team mostly kept their top picks and used them on players they were patient with. How many people yelled at the time for them to move on from Antropov? How many people doubted Kaberle's ability in his own end?

From '97 to 2002 the team drafted and developed well. That's a major reason why the team was good.

Stavros wasn't any different than any of the other owners.

Really? Stavros wasn't any different from Ballard? Keep digging man.

I question why you continue to oppose the proposal that characteristics present in ownership before the Ballard era persist today.

That doesn't even make sense. Before the Ballard era the team was unquestionably successful. Even by your nutty standards.

Just in the last week or so I find articles in the media that discuss "culture change"; or refer to "a unique dynamic in Toronto"; or a player's time in Toronto described as "...his confidence was drained...he was a shadow of himself...". This has been going on for 45+ years. You don't even have to read between between the lines.

Ah yes, the Toronto hockey media. The unquestionable tellers of truth.

You keep talking about success, coming in second place isn't success.

In which case there are multiple teams who've gone the same amount of time without success. Why hasn't Buffalo ever been successful? Vancouver? St. Louis? What are their unique dynamics? What are the unique dynamics that have affected every expansion team other than the Ducks and Lightning in the last 25 years?

Why haven't the Rangers had a Hart winner since 1959? Why haven't the Blackhawks had one since 1968? Why have the Devils never had one? Or anyone in the history of the Stars or Flames franchises?

More to the point what does it really prove? Doug Gilmour didn't win the Hart trophy in '93 because maybe the greatest player to ever play the game had his greatest ever season. If Lemieux had been hurt that year...would that have meant the dynamic would have been different in Toronto? Curtis Joseph similarly lost out to the greatest goalie of all time for the Vezina in '99. What difference does that make? If Mike Johnson had scored five more points in '98 he might have won the Calder. How in the world do any of those things reflect on upper management and, more to the point, who the hell cares?

The narrower and narrower you make your definition of "success" the more and more teams will fail to reach it. Makes this "unique" dynamic pretty common.

Just recently the local papers ran a story about a survivor of the Titanic tragedy....

See, I was going to Shelbyville to get a new heel for my shoe. Now, back in those days the Ferry to shelbyville cost a nickel and nickels used to have pictures of bees on them. Give me five bees for a quarter you'd say. Now, the important thing to remember is that I was wearing an onion on my belt. We didn't have white onions because of the war...

You seem to be the type that has to have the last word.

Yes, I'm certainly the one who keeps bringing this topic up after it's been dead for a week.

The only people who accuse me of wanting to get the last word in are people who are doing the exact same thing. It's transparent.

Buffalo and Vancouver both made it to the final twice. Two St. Louis Blues won the Norris. I'd bet that both Buffalo and St.Louis have a better winning % in the last 45+ years and Vancouver is probably closer to Leafs horrible record. Are there any other teams you wish to compare Leafs dismal record against? Do you need more proof?

The last word.....yes....the difference is I'm defending my position and you're chasing. Didn't you say something about hoofs coming behind me? What provoked you so? Was it my use of the word "curse"? Did I use the word "curse"?. Did you really think I meant that literally? Did you decide that it would be easy to beat on this poor sap (and by doing so make yourself feel stronger)?

Talking about hoofs...may I suggest what may be bothering you?
You feel elegant and strong....like a horse. But the world keeps treating you like a zebra.

 

[Kin]

Buffalo and Vancouver both made it to the final twice.

Just a post ago it was "coming in second isn't success". Now making the finals is evidence of success but 4 conference finals and having runners up in every meaningless award in 10 years is still meaningless. Not only are your benchmarks for success random and meaningless, they're not even consistent.

Didn't you say something about hoofs coming behind me?

No. But as above, it seems like keeping an argument consistent from one post to the next isn't your strong suit.

Can I suggest what's bothering you? You thought that your rambling theory would be treated as gospel wisdom because of your age and when it was found wanting in a free and fair marketplace of ideas you got upset and petulant. If you'd like to keep making things personal, feel free to PM me rather than waste people's time.

 

[Pick]

Buffalo and Vancouver both made it to the final twice.

Just a post ago it was "coming in second isn't success". Now making the finals is evidence of success but 4 conference finals and having runners up in every meaningless award in 10 years is still meaningless. Not only are your benchmarks for success random and meaningless, they're not even consistent.

Didn't you say something about hoofs coming behind me?

No. But as above, it seems like keeping an argument consistent from one post to the next isn't your strong suit.

Can I suggest what's bothering you? You thought that your rambling theory would be treated as gospel wisdom because of your age and when it was found wanting in a free and fair marketplace of ideas you got upset and petulant. If you'd like to keep making things personal, feel free to PM me rather than waste people's time.

No, coming in second place isn't success but Leafs haven't even made it that far while other teams have. What criteria do you think is appropriate? What is success -  Winning %? Stanley cups? Personal player achievements? Playoff series won? Can you name others? Lets use them all. What you will find is that Leafs are in the bottom third.

The data speaks for itself. You just don't want to accept it.

Btw, you did mention horses and zebras.
Petulant? Go back and read all the posts. I remained calm and polite while you took silly jabs and used childish words like 'nutty'.