2016-17 Centennial Leafs General Team Discussion

[Kin]

I don't think anyone ever really had a problem with Matt Martin on the basis of it being something that would cripple the team or that Matt Martin was a guy who everyone on the team would hate.

I've long been of the belief that the difference between a really good 4th line and a really bad one isn't one that's likely to result in a big shift in a team's fortunes.

The issue was always that for a team that had been almost uniformly smart a sign that A) they believed in the whole "protection" notion and B) they were willing to pay frankly stupid rates for it was a bad sign writ large.

 

[freer]

My contract gripes aside, Martin is the cheapest member of that fabled best Fourth Line.

I have no problem with Martin's contract, he does the job he is suppose to do.

 

[herman]

I have no problem with Martin's contract, he does the job he is suppose to do.

He sure does. I just don't think the Leafs should've been looking for that particular job role to be filled in this lineup and certainly not setting the market on it.

 

[herman]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/no-detail-small-van-riemsdyk-leafs-hockey-nerd/

I was going to say, wow, SportsNet is really upping their game lately. Then I noticed this was a Jonas Seigel piece, and that was why.

It is really, really good and you should drop whatever you're doing to read it (within reason).

 

[TBLeafer]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/no-detail-small-van-riemsdyk-leafs-hockey-nerd/

I was going to say, wow, SportsNet is really upping their game lately. Then I noticed this was a Jonas Seigel piece, and that was why.

It is really, really good and you should drop whatever you're doing to read it (within reason).

Sooooo... lock him up?

 

[herman]

Sooooo... lock him up?

Nah. Too valuable for what he can bring to the table in a trade to line up options with our success window.

But pretty clear to see what sort of off-ice personality Shanahan was looking for in the locker room and why JvR wasn't just punted out for marginal returns.

 

[Kin]

Van Riemsdyk, who now trains with Andy O'Brien (known best for working with Sidney Crosby), missed only two games to injury in his first three seasons with Toronto and has played in every game this year after missing the second half of last season with a broken foot.

So he's remarkably uninjured except for when he's injured.

 

[Kin]

But pretty clear to see what sort of off-ice personality Shanahan was looking for in the locker room and why JvR wasn't just punted out for marginal returns.

Yeah, Shanahan really shook up the game with his "players should work hard" breakthrough.

 

[TBLeafer]

Sooooo... lock him up?

Nah. Too valuable for what he can bring to the table in a trade to line up options with our success window.

But pretty clear to see what sort of off-ice personality Shanahan was looking for in the locker room and why JvR wasn't just punted out for marginal returns.

If he does go, I'd put money on it being toward solidifying the current team, not for futures.

 

[TBLeafer]

Van Riemsdyk, who now trains with Andy O'Brien (known best for working with Sidney Crosby), missed only two games to injury in his first three seasons with Toronto and has played in every game this year after missing the second half of last season with a broken foot.

So he's remarkably uninjured except for when he's injured.

Well at least we don't have Phanny around to do that to teammates, anymore.

 

[herman]

But pretty clear to see what sort of off-ice personality Shanahan was looking for in the locker room and why JvR wasn't just punted out for marginal returns.

Yeah, Shanahan really shook up the game with his "players should work hard" breakthrough.

I was expecting razed earth, return be damned.

 

[louisstamos]

Sooooo... lock him up?

Nah. Too valuable for what he can bring to the table in a trade to line up options with our success window.

But pretty clear to see what sort of off-ice personality Shanahan was looking for in the locker room and why JvR wasn't just punted out for marginal returns.

If he does go, I'd put money on it being toward solidifying the current team, not for futures.

Well, ideally you're looking for both - a player who can step into your NHL lineup right away, but also young enough that a) they haven't reached their ceiling yet, and b) to be part of the core going forward.  Something like 20-23 years old, I guess?

 

[Kin]

I was expecting razed earth, return be damned.

Phil Kessel was devastated to learn that a hot dog doesn't qualify as a vitamin injection.

 

[bustaheims]

If he does go, I'd put money on it being toward solidifying the current team, not for futures.

When people talk about futures for JvR, they're not talking about 5 years from now types, but next season/the season after types. JvR won't be moved with the intention of improving this year's team. He'll be moved to improve the team's long-term outlook. If that also happens to improve the team this season, so be it, but it's absolutely not the primary focus of a JvR trade.

 

[Zee]

Sooooo... lock him up?

Nah. Too valuable for what he can bring to the table in a trade to line up options with our success window.

But pretty clear to see what sort of off-ice personality Shanahan was looking for in the locker room and why JvR wasn't just punted out for marginal returns.

If he does go, I'd put money on it being toward solidifying the current team, not for futures.

Well, ideally you're looking for both - a player who can step into your NHL lineup right away, but also young enough that a) they haven't reached their ceiling yet, and b) to be part of the core going forward.  Something like 20-23 years old, I guess?

I like JVR, he's having a great season, but that being said he's turning 28 this season, and will be 29 when his current contract expires.  You don't have to look very hard to see that the NHL is a league where 25 and younger is king.  Locking up JVR to a 6-7 year contract would make no sense given that the rest of the core  is a lot younger.  He'll be bringing back diminishing returns as he gets older.  His trade value right now should be very good, so the Leafs should try and maximize that trade chip and bring back 1-2 younger players with high potential. 

 

[herman]

If the team were honestly interested in winning this season (right now), Stamkos would have 14M here and Hunlak would not be a thing.

This is a core development year, and we still have lots of insulation pieces to eventually phase out (everyone I've been whining about).

 

[Kin]

He'll be bringing back diminishing returns as he gets older.  His trade value right now should be very good, so the Leafs should try and maximize that trade chip and bring back 1-2 younger players with high potential.

I think something to emphasize about JVR's value right now is that in addition to just the simple reality that a productive player on a below-market contract is more valuable the more time is left on their deal, a team that trades for JVR would then be confronted with the same reality about signing him to an extension and could, at next year's deadline, flip him to recoup some of their investment.

 

[TBLeafer]

If he does go, I'd put money on it being toward solidifying the current team, not for futures.

When people talk about futures for JvR, they're not talking about 5 years from now types, but next season/the season after types. JvR won't be moved with the intention of improving this year's team. He'll be moved to improve the team's long-term outlook. If that also happens to improve the team this season, so be it, but it's absolutely not the primary focus of a JvR trade.

Source? Or is this just your opinion trying to be passed off as definitive fact again?

 

[TBLeafer]

Sooooo... lock him up?

Nah. Too valuable for what he can bring to the table in a trade to line up options with our success window.

But pretty clear to see what sort of off-ice personality Shanahan was looking for in the locker room and why JvR wasn't just punted out for marginal returns.

If he does go, I'd put money on it being toward solidifying the current team, not for futures.

Well, ideally you're looking for both - a player who can step into your NHL lineup right away, but also young enough that a) they haven't reached their ceiling yet, and b) to be part of the core going forward.  Something like 20-23 years old, I guess?

Ideally, if the opportunity presents itself, agreed. Or perhaps even if you go with a D around JVR's age, he can serve to shore up the top four for the foreseeable future while guys like Dermott and Nielsen can continue to develop steadily, without rushing things.

Something like JVR for Tanev.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

If he does go, I'd put money on it being toward solidifying the current team, not for futures.

When people talk about futures for JvR, they're not talking about 5 years from now types, but next season/the season after types. JvR won't be moved with the intention of improving this year's team. He'll be moved to improve the team's long-term outlook. If that also happens to improve the team this season, so be it, but it's absolutely not the primary focus of a JvR trade.

Source? Or is this just your opinion trying to be passed off as definitive fact again?

Lou and Shanny have said ad nauseam that any deals they make at this point will still be with an outlook to the future.

You chastising someone for passing off opinion as fact almost broke the internet.