2016-2017 NHL Thread

[Kin]

He played with a few HOF'ers as well but I still don't think he's worthy. 

At a glance the only members of the Hall he played with are half a season with Selanne as a rookie and then a couple years of Mike Gartner at the very end of his career.

Roenick and Tkachuk will probably get in eventually but they've been retired for a while now and there doesn't seem to be a rush.

 

[Kin]

I don't know if it's ridiculous...he played 1540 NHL games plus 55 (ha!) playoff games.

So that's 1595 total games. Which is 31 fewer than Glen Wesley played. Wesley, I think you'd agree, isn't getting into the Hall.

Vince Damphousse played more than 1500 games combined. Scored 1300+ points. Won a cup. Isn't in.

Rod Brind'Amour played 1643 games. Scored 1295 points. Won a cup. Won 2 Selkes. Isn't in.

Putting Doan in the Hall would effectively be creating a new standard for election, the only criteria for which is longevity.

 

[rdowdall]

1. Connor McDavid
https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2017/8/25/16198130/nhl-top-25-under-25-rankings-2017-connor-mcdavid-edmonton-oilers

Highest rank: No. 1
Lowest rank: No. 1

How should I feel about this?

I'm surprised Max Domi didn't get an honorable mention.

 

[L K]

1. Connor McDavid
https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2017/8/25/16198130/nhl-top-25-under-25-rankings-2017-connor-mcdavid-edmonton-oilers

Highest rank: No. 1
Lowest rank: No. 1

How should I feel about this?

I'm surprised Max Domi didn't get an honorable mention.

Matthew Tkachuk might be another one to add to that list.  19 years old, 48 points as a rookie and a guy who plays an agitating PF game.

 

[rdowdall]

1. Connor McDavid
https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2017/8/25/16198130/nhl-top-25-under-25-rankings-2017-connor-mcdavid-edmonton-oilers

Highest rank: No. 1
Lowest rank: No. 1

How should I feel about this?

I'm surprised Max Domi didn't get an honorable mention.

Matthew Tkachuk might be another one to add to that list.  19 years old, 48 points as a rookie and a guy who plays an agitating PF game.

Good point.  Nothing against Jake Guentzel, but I might take either of those guys over him based on who Jake gets to play with.

 

[Bates]

Brain fart, I thought Roenick and Tkachuk were already in??? So he was on team with 3, Selanne, Gartner, and Pronger.  Future HOF'ers Roenick, Tkachuk, and Datsuk were also on teams he played on!!!  He still isn't worthy, no matter how nice and Classy he is.

He played with a few HOF'ers as well but I still don't think he's worthy. 

At a glance the only members of the Hall he played with are half a season with Selanne as a rookie and then a couple years of Mike Gartner at the very end of his career.

Roenick and Tkachuk will probably get in eventually but they've been retired for a while now and there doesn't seem to be a rush.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Brain fart, I thought Roenick and Tkachuk were already in??? So he was on team with 3, Selanne, Gartner, and Pronger.  Future HOF'ers Roenick, Tkachuk, and Datsuk were also on teams he played on!!!  He still isn't worthy, no matter how nice and Classy he is.

???

 

[louisstamos]

Brain fart, I thought Roenick and Tkachuk were already in??? So he was on team with 3, Selanne, Gartner, and Pronger.  Future HOF'ers Roenick, Tkachuk, and Datsuk were also on teams he played on!!!  He still isn't worthy, no matter how nice and Classy he is.

???

Technically true, although the two bolded never put on a Coyotes uniform ever!

 

[Bates]

There's the joke to make up for my previous brain fart.

Brain fart, I thought Roenick and Tkachuk were already in??? So he was on team with 3, Selanne, Gartner, and Pronger.  Future HOF'ers Roenick, Tkachuk, and Datsuk were also on teams he played on!!!  He still isn't worthy, no matter how nice and Classy he is.

???

Technically true, although the two bolded never put on a Coyotes uniform ever!

 

[Kin]

Brain fart, I thought Roenick and Tkachuk were already in??? So he was on team with 3, Selanne, Gartner, and Pronger.  Future HOF'ers Roenick, Tkachuk, and Datsuk were also on teams he played on!!!  He still isn't worthy, no matter how nice and Classy he is.

I would have assumed so too but there you are. That said, are Tkachuk and Roenick good candidates? I guess so. But they're both marginal. Which I think still ultimately makes the point. There are a lot of guys in the HOF who weren't usually the best players on their team but only because they played with all-time greats like Lafleur or Gretzky or whoever. There aren't many members of the Hall who weren't the best players on their team because they played with, say, Bernie Federko.

 

[bustaheims]

I would have assumed so too but there you are. That said, are Tkachuk and Roenick good candidates? I guess so. But they're both marginal. Which I think still ultimately makes the point.

If it wasn't for the fact they both scored 500+ goals and 1000+ points, I'm not sure they'd really even be marginal candidates. No major trophies between them (Tkachuk led the league in goals for a single season before there was a trophy for it), a pair of 2nd team end of season All Stars (both Tkachuk), no real international success, nor were they major parts of teams that were dominant forces in the league over multiple seasons. I'm not sure I'd vote for them.

 

[Bates]

I wouldn't vote either in but am fairly confident they will get there. 

 

[Kin]

If it wasn't for the fact they both scored 500+ goals and 1000+ points, I'm not sure they'd really even be marginal candidates. No major trophies between them (Tkachuk led the league in goals for a single season before there was a trophy for it), a pair of 2nd team end of season All Stars (both Tkachuk), no real international success, nor were they major parts of teams that were dominant forces in the league over multiple seasons. I'm not sure I'd vote for them.

If you look past stuff that's beyond their control though like playing your best years at C when Yzerman, Gretzky and Lemieux were all in the league or where they were born and how that influences international success I think they pretty comfortably compare to some of the more marginal guys that the Hall has put in in recent years. I get that a lowest common denominator argument like that isn't a good standard for the Hall but Roenick is pretty comparable to someone like Nieuwendyk and I think Tkachuk was a better player than, say, Andreychuk.

And, at least in Tkachuk's case, I think the World Cup in '96 and a silver medal in '02 is a pretty solid international resume.

 

[bustaheims]

If you look past stuff that's beyond their control though like playing your best years at C when Yzerman, Gretzky and Lemieux were all in the league or where they were born and how that influences international success I think they pretty comfortably compare to some of the more marginal guys that the Hall has put in in recent years. I get that a lowest common denominator argument like that isn't a good standard for the Hall but Roenick is pretty comparable to someone like Nieuwendyk and I think Tkachuk was a better player than, say, Andreychuk.

And, at least in Tkachuk's case, I think the World Cup in '96 and a silver medal in '02 is a pretty solid international resume.

Maybe - and I think I'd mostly agree with Tkachuk/Andreychuk, though, the latter's totals were obviously more impressive, thanks to his health/longevity - but, Nieuwendyk has a Calder, Conn Smythe, Olympic Gold, and three Cup rings in his favour. That's a fair amount of hardware that Roenick doesn't - and all accomplishments he had similar opportunities to achieve. If Nieuwendyk is near the baseline minimum, Roenick doesn't deserve entry.

 

[Kin]

Maybe - and I think I'd mostly agree with Tkachuk/Andreychuk, though, the latter's totals were obviously more impressive, thanks to his health/longevity - but, Nieuwendyk has a Calder, Conn Smythe, Olympic Gold, and three Cup rings in his favour. That's a fair amount of hardware that Roenick doesn't - and all accomplishments he had similar opportunities to achieve. If Nieuwendyk is near the baseline minimum, Roenick doesn't deserve entry.

Eh, I just don't agree. Nieuwendyk winning a bunch of cups as his team's #2 C, being an end of roster guy on the '02 Olympic team and a pretty dubious Conn Smythe decision don't outweigh what I think is the larger question of which guy was a better player. To me, that's Roenick. Scored 100 points three times to Nieuwendyk never hitting the mark. An all-star 9 times to Nieuwendyk's 4. All throughout the 90's I don't think any of Roenick's teams would have for a second considered trading him straight for Nieuwendyk.

As a 22 year old Nieuwendyk scored 14 points in 22 playoff games. Calgary, a team with 5 other guys who'd eventually be in the HOF, won the cup. Nieuwendyk was 4th on the team in scoring.

As a 22 year old, Roenick scored 22 points in 18 playoff games. Chicago, a team with 3 other guys who'd eventually make the Hall, didn't win the cup. Roenick led that team in scoring by almost 30 points.

To me, at some point, you can't put a guy in the Hall because he had better teammates than another guy.

 

[rdowdall]

The rumours of Stamkos's demise were greatly exaggerated.

 

[rdowdall]

Nope, I'm going to keep posting in this thread.  There will only ever be a 2016-2017 NHL Thread in my heart.  Because that was the year the Auston Matthews started playing.  So you all can move on and post in the "correctly labelled" thread.  But I'll still be here.  All by myself.  Living under a rock.

 

[Britishbulldog]

Richard Dunn all by himself in Las Vegas Airport

You remind me of a Moncton acquaintance of mine who got stuck in an airport and recorded a video.

 

[rdowdall]

Richard Dunn all by himself in Las Vegas Airport

You remind me of a Moncton acquaintance of mine who got stuck in an airport and recorded a video.

That is good.  Hard to fill that whole song up with a video of me typing though.