https://twitter.com/markhmasters/status/964529003553067008
Eeeep. No call-up though yet, so maybe that's a good sign.
Eeeep. No call-up though yet, so maybe that's a good sign.
2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
- Thread starter herman
- Start date
ZBBM
Active member
herman said:
Just saw this, and the short answer is (1). Get that, and the Leafs are contenders for X years. Add Tavares, and you have 3 really good lines ... backed by an iffy defense that, I would argue, is much more likely to sink you in the playoffs when teams making suppressing offense a premium.
Now, on the other hand so far in the discussion we haven't considered Tavares' defensive abilities. I frankly don't watch/follow him enough to know anything about it. If he is good all 200 feet, then my argument is somewhat weaker. But I still choose (1).
herman
Well-known member
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
I would throw stats at this, but I don't think that's necessary. Tavares is better defensively than Kadri and Matthews and has been playing a higher quality of competition with arguably lesser linemates. He is harder to handle down low than Kadri, and can attack the net as a playmaker in transition, a slapshot option on the cross-ice plays, or a power forward driving it in himself. He plays PK and is a threat to score a shortie. He is literally the shutdown centre some fans imagine Kadri is (but better).
I know your preference is for defensemen in general (and stoves rather than snowmobiles and jetskis
) and I think a top RHD will do this team a world of good but that impact is not as far reaching as adding Tavares. He makes whatever defense plays with him better defensively and offensively. He makes whichever winger is blessed to be on his line much more expensive on the open market. He pushes our legitimate top scoring lines into easier matchups.
ZBBM
Active member
herman said:Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
I would throw stats at this, but I don't think that's necessary. Tavares is better defensively than Kadri and Matthews and has been playing a higher quality of competition with arguably lesser linemates. He is harder to handle down low than Kadri, and can attack the net as a playmaker in transition, a slapshot option on the cross-ice plays, or a power forward driving it in himself. He plays PK and is a threat to score a shortie. He is literally the shutdown centre some fans imagine Kadri is (but better).
I know your preference is for defensemen in general (and stoves rather than snowmobiles and jetskis
But he don't heat the house on a cold, cold night.
Seriously, for the money it would take to get him I'd look to somehow add 2 quality RHD. No, you're unlikely to land Doughty, and I am wondering whether Karlsson is now slightly damaged goods.
All I can tell you is I spent all last game fixated on Seth Jones.
bustaheims
Active member
So, I know it's still early, but, with how far ahead the Leafs are from 4th in their division, I thought it would be fun to look at their magic number for eliminating teams from passing them. Because it's so early, I've ignored tie-breakers, as ROWs are still very much unsettled. These totals represent the total points gained by the Leafs or lost by the team chasing them that would guarantee the Leafs finish the season with more points:
Florida: 30
Detroit: 25
Ottawa: 21
Montreal: 20
Buffalo: 11
Florida: 30
Detroit: 25
Ottawa: 21
Montreal: 20
Buffalo: 11
Zee
Active member
I know at various times this season we've complained about the Leafs play, how they were playing or not playing, who was dressed who wasn't. Looking at the Leafs record right now, they have 37 wins so far...last season the Leafs only had 40 TOTAL wins in the season. We're 3 back of last season's win total. It's becoming quite the incredible season. They just win despite our fears.
Zee said:
11-2 since some of the things we all complained about were finally addressed.
Kin
New member
I think what's been nice is that they've been able to win running and gunning and they've been able to win back on their heels, relying on goaltending.
So far the question mark seems to be whether they can win a tight checking counter-punching sort of game that they're likely to see a ton of in the playoffs.
So far the question mark seems to be whether they can win a tight checking counter-punching sort of game that they're likely to see a ton of in the playoffs.
herman
Well-known member
Tactically, I see they have the right moves and plays on the offensive side. The defense is more patient on low pressure breakouts (e.g. line changes), and they've been more comfortable holding the puck waiting for lanes to develop. Not as visible on camera is how the weakside blowout forwards are no longer holding still at the OZ blueline (looking for just the tip), but circling to present targets.
https://twitter.com/TheFlintor/status/966118057599934467
They'll carry it in if there is a lane and stop up for help. Because of our personnel talent arrangement and this tactic, the people usually firing it through the NZ are our puck moving LD, and the recipients in motion for carry-ins are usually our (better) RWs. Centres (or F3 depending on how the breakout happened) are swinging nice and low to present a shorter layer of options.
If no carry lane is present, they'll try to lay it softly into the shortside corner and pincer behind the net into a low-high play back to the defense (Hyman+Nylander are great at this, JvR is very soft at this). The chip in forces defenders to pivot and re-mark, which means it chews up decision-making time and can cause mistakes. The Leafs really like to use the quick shot from high into tips and deflections (as Romanuk noted last night), or bank passes off the pads for rebounds. Their aim is to generate goals off quick changes in direction. They have a higher SH% than average (as a team) as a result of this tactic.
https://twitter.com/TheFlintor/status/966107703000014848
https://twitter.com/TheFlintor/status/965395931301478401
Puck retrieval from the backend is boom or bust in that the left side guys can do it on their own, and the right side guys tend to pin their man and hope someone else can help. They really struggle when the other team sets up unconventionally (broken plays) as they're taught to be aggressive (good) but sometimes mistake when to activate (bad). Zaitsev, Hainsey, and Polak are usually tasked with being the breaker of cycles (mash a guy into the boards), while the two forwards or defender shadowing the play are supposed to outnumber the support players and win the puck back. No one apparently thinks this is interesting to highlight on twitter, so I have no clips to play with.
https://twitter.com/TheFlintor/status/966118057599934467
They'll carry it in if there is a lane and stop up for help. Because of our personnel talent arrangement and this tactic, the people usually firing it through the NZ are our puck moving LD, and the recipients in motion for carry-ins are usually our (better) RWs. Centres (or F3 depending on how the breakout happened) are swinging nice and low to present a shorter layer of options.
If no carry lane is present, they'll try to lay it softly into the shortside corner and pincer behind the net into a low-high play back to the defense (Hyman+Nylander are great at this, JvR is very soft at this). The chip in forces defenders to pivot and re-mark, which means it chews up decision-making time and can cause mistakes. The Leafs really like to use the quick shot from high into tips and deflections (as Romanuk noted last night), or bank passes off the pads for rebounds. Their aim is to generate goals off quick changes in direction. They have a higher SH% than average (as a team) as a result of this tactic.
https://twitter.com/TheFlintor/status/966107703000014848
https://twitter.com/TheFlintor/status/965395931301478401
Puck retrieval from the backend is boom or bust in that the left side guys can do it on their own, and the right side guys tend to pin their man and hope someone else can help. They really struggle when the other team sets up unconventionally (broken plays) as they're taught to be aggressive (good) but sometimes mistake when to activate (bad). Zaitsev, Hainsey, and Polak are usually tasked with being the breaker of cycles (mash a guy into the boards), while the two forwards or defender shadowing the play are supposed to outnumber the support players and win the puck back. No one apparently thinks this is interesting to highlight on twitter, so I have no clips to play with.
ZBBM
Active member
What the hell are you doing hanging around here, herman? Your stuff is 11000x better than Colby Freaking Armstrong and a bunch of other talking heads on the broadcasts. For God's sake, some forward-looking producer should show Millen the gate, turn off Romanuk's mic, shove a tablet in your hands, and let you telestrate the damn games.
Pfffft, he's probably just copying and pasting all this stuff from the Athletic because he knows nobody else reads it.
herman
Well-known member
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
I'm flattered, but tv is a whole different gig than writing. I edit my writing. Really hard to edit what comes out of my mouth when it's rolling! Aside from some usual gaffes and standard talking points, Millen and Romanuk mentioned some interesting things last night that I'd give them props for: when Kadri had a clean break, Millen pointed out how the Leafs' bench called out Three! Three! to let him know he had support; he also noted how the younger Leafs didn't talk much on the ice. I'm pretty convinced a lot of Gardiner's troubles with Zaitsev (and everyone's chemistry issues with Zaitsev) is that he doesn't get much communication from him. Contrast that with Carrick (and how much Hainsey barks at everyone) and you see cleaner breakouts and retrievals.
I wrote it all myself, but Carlton's not entirely wrong in that a lot of the observations I've made were refined by the writings (and podcast appearances) of others, which might be difficult for me to cite exactly. The big three (point five) writers of influence for Leafs systems analysis for me are probably Justin Bourne, Anthony Petrielli, Gus Katsaros, and when he was publicly available, Jack Han. They're still my observations (if you want to timestamp check the GDTs and other threads
) but their writings have helped me with the terminology and helpful things to watch for. I haven't played the game at any organized level, and I have zero direct access to the team, so I've definitely got some assumptions in there that could be wrong.