2017-2018 NHL Thread

[Kin]

Seems nutty but it wouldn't completely shock me. Like I said at the time here I think he's an easy target for when things go wrong, for reasons both real and BS.

 

[herman]

Can we trade for Phil Kessel, with Pittsburgh retaining 3M?

I wasn't kidding. Even if it'd be hilarious to watch Steve Simmons start frothing.

Hyman - Matthews - Kessel
Marleau - Kadri - Marner
Johnsson - Nylander - Kapanen
Aaltonen - Lindholm - Brown

though it'd probably cost a Johnsson/Kapanen+, so... Grundstrom/Leivo goes in there somewhere, maybe.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Shanahan seemed to want Kessel out as much as anybody, so I doubt the Leafs even really consider it.

 

[cabber24]

Can we trade for Phil Kessel, with Pittsburgh retaining 3M?

I wasn't kidding. Even if it'd be hilarious to watch Steve Simmons start frothing.

(8M Per - 3M Retained by PIT + 2M Retained by TOR = 7M)

Hyman - Matthews - Kessel
Marleau - Kadri - Marner
Johnsson - Nylander - Kapanen
Aaltonen - Lindholm - Brown

though it'd probably cost a Johnsson/Kapanen+, so... Grundstrom/Leivo goes in there somewhere, maybe.

Kessel for 4 years at 7M is not where I would invest right now. Defense.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

If the Kris Letang rumours start up again though I'd look into that.

 

[herman]

Shanahan seemed to want Kessel out as much as anybody, so I doubt the Leafs even really consider it.

He was their biggest available trade piece to kickstart a teardown and build.

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2015/07/01/brendan-shanahan-addresses-media-on-phil-kessel-trade/

But between the lines, was there something else going on? It's a different Leafs squad almost entirely now.

 

[herman]

Kessel for 4 years at 7M is not where I would invest right now. Defense.

Kessel has an 8M deal. We're currently retaining 1.2M. If Pittsburgh trades him back to us retaining 3M, we'd have him at 5M for 4 years.

And this is just the Armchair GM thread bleeding into every thread (thanks, offseason), but that's basically what most people were wishfully thinking JvR would stick around for. I also think the defensive issues are internally solvable with better forward buy-in to puck retrieval and breakout support, and changing up the defense puck play philosophy a bit (more holding and scanning, less chipping by default).

 

[Peter D.]

See, this would have been the perfect time to bring in Kessel.

 

[Deebo]

Kessel has an 8M deal. We're currently retaining 1.2M. If Pittsburgh trades him back to us retaining 3M, we'd have him at 5M for 4 years.

The 1.2M is on our cap regardless, I don't think you should count that as part of the cap implications of bringing him back. If Pittsburgh was to retain 3M, the additional cap cost is 3.8M.. which would be a no-brainer to me if the asset cost isn't prohibitive. I could see many teams being interested if Kessel is made available at 4*3.8 though, so I think it would take a pretty valuable package to bring him back.

I'm not sure what the rules are for retention in this case, is a team allowed to re-acquire a player they are already retaining on and if they are, can the team they are acquiring them from retain salary when the team they are trading the player to is already retaining on that player?

There is also the 50% maximum retention. Is it 50% of the total contract can be retained by all the teams combined, or is that 50% of current cap hit when the player is being traded.

 

[herman]

Kessel has an 8M deal. We're currently retaining 1.2M. If Pittsburgh trades him back to us retaining 3M, we'd have him at 5M for 4 years.

The 1.2M is on our cap regardless, I don't think you should count that as part of the cap implications of bringing him back. If Pittsburgh was to retain 3M, the additional cap cost is 3.8M.. which would be a no-brainer to me if the asset cost isn't prohibitive. I could see many teams being interested if Kessel is made available at 4*3.8 though, so I think it would take a pretty valuable package to bring him back.

I'm not sure what the rules are for retention in this case, is a team allowed to re-acquire a player they are already retaining on and if they are, can the team they are acquiring them from retain salary when the team they are trading the player to is already retaining on that player?

There is also the 50% maximum retention. Is it 50% of the total contract can be retained by all the teams combined, or is that 50% of current cap hit when the player is being traded.

Yeah that's a good point about reading it more like 3.8M to add.

I've always read the 50% rule as 50% of the remaining salary, as the previously retained amount is irrelevant to the trading team.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHL_salary_cap#Trades_and_salary_retention

[list type=decimal]
[*]The acquiring team must assume at least 50 percent of the remaining salary and cap charge of the SPC.
[*]Such a contract can only be traded twice using provision 1 during the lifetime of the SPC.
[*]Retained salary by the trading team cannot be more than 15 percent of the upper salary cap limit.
[*]A maximum of 3 such contracts with salary retained in a trade can be on a team's books at any one time.
[/list]

Reacquisition restrictions only apply for one year following the trade.

 

[herman]

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/release-oilers-name-gulutzan-yawney-and-viveiros-assistant-coaches/c-298789660

Out of the fire, for Glen Gulutzan, and into the bitumen.

 

[cabber24]

Kessel has an 8M deal. We're currently retaining 1.2M. If Pittsburgh trades him back to us retaining 3M, we'd have him at 5M for 4 years.

The 1.2M is on our cap regardless, I don't think you should count that as part of the cap implications of bringing him back. If Pittsburgh was to retain 3M, the additional cap cost is 3.8M.. which would be a no-brainer to me if the asset cost isn't prohibitive. I could see many teams being interested if Kessel is made available at 4*3.8 though, so I think it would take a pretty valuable package to bring him back.

I'm not sure what the rules are for retention in this case, is a team allowed to re-acquire a player they are already retaining on and if they are, can the team they are acquiring them from retain salary when the team they are trading the player to is already retaining on that player?

There is also the 50% maximum retention. Is it 50% of the total contract can be retained by all the teams combined, or is that 50% of current cap hit when the player is being traded.

Good perspective, 1.2M is gone no matter what.

I doubt Pittsburgh would have to retain any where near 3M though. Kessel at 6.8M is not terrible value.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

The counterpoint to the fact that I've probably heard of at least 20 guys presently in the NHL being referred to as a "generational talent" is that I heard one of the TSN1050 broadcasters this morning say that there were only about 7 "#1 defensemen" in the entire NHL.

I don't know what words mean anymore.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

The counterpoint to the fact that I've probably heard of at least 20 guys presently in the NHL being referred to as a "generational talent" is that I heard one of the TSN1050 broadcasters this morning say that there were only about 7 "#1 defensemen" in the entire NHL.

I don't know what words mean anymore.

I keep hearing people describe Dahlin as "generational", which to me sounds absolutely nuts but hey if it gets Sabres fans' expectations for him higher than what they should be I guess I'm all for it.

 

[TimKerr]

The counterpoint to the fact that I've probably heard of at least 20 guys presently in the NHL being referred to as a "generational talent" is that I heard one of the TSN1050 broadcasters this morning say that there were only about 7 "#1 defensemen" in the entire NHL.

I don't know what words mean anymore.

I keep hearing people describe Dahlin as "generational", which to me sounds absolutely nuts but hey if it gets Sabres fans' expectations for him higher than what they should be I guess I'm all for it.

Who is the last generational defenceman? Karlsson? Who was it before that?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Who is the last generational defenceman? Karlsson? Who was it before that?

Lidstrom.

And like even if we're going to be very generous with the word "generational" and say that includes somebody like Doughty too... boy that's still a very high expectation for Dahlin.

 

[TimKerr]

Who is the last generational defenceman? Karlsson? Who was it before that?

Lidstrom.

And like even if we're going to be very generous with the word "generational" and say that includes somebody like Doughty too... boy that's still a very high expectation for Dahlin.

Slight aside, is it wrong if I think Doughty isn't as good as everyone says he is? and especially where he'll be in 5 years? The league is changing to fast puck-moving dmen. I don't know if he is one now and won't be like that in 5 years. He reminds me more of Keith/Seabrook and look at them this year.

 

[herman]

The counterpoint to the fact that I've probably heard of at least 20 guys presently in the NHL being referred to as a "generational talent" is that I heard one of the TSN1050 broadcasters this morning say that there were only about 7 "#1 defensemen" in the entire NHL.

I don't know what words mean anymore.

I keep hearing people describe Dahlin as "generational", which to me sounds absolutely nuts but hey if it gets Sabres fans' expectations for him higher than what they should be I guess I'm all for it.

Who is the last generational defenceman? Karlsson? Who was it before that?

I'll do you one better. Why is the last generational defenseman?

 

[Kin]

Slight aside, is it wrong if I think Doughty isn't as good as everyone says he is? and especially where he'll be in 5 years? The league is changing to fast puck-moving dmen. I don't know if he is one now and won't be like that in 5 years. He reminds me more of Keith/Seabrook and look at them this year.

Is Keith not fast? I always thought he was.

Either way, I think there have been quite a few people on the "Doughty is overrated" train ever since his Norris. I'd definitely put him behind guys like Karlsson, Subban and Hedman anyway

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Slight aside, is it wrong if I think Doughty isn't as good as everyone says he is? and especially where he'll be in 5 years? The league is changing to fast puck-moving dmen. I don't know if he is one now and won't be like that in 5 years. He reminds me more of Keith/Seabrook and look at them this year.

Is Keith not fast? I always thought he was.

Either way, I think there have been quite a few people on the "Doughty is overrated" train ever since his Norris. I'd definitely put him behind guys like Karlsson, Subban and Hedman anyway

Yeah, Keith's a pretty terrific skater... in the upper echelon of the league there I'd say. I don't think anybody has an explanation for what happened to him this season but I'd assume he'll bounce back next season. Doughty's got wheels too... neither of them are really like Seabrook in the sense that they're going to plummet in value any time soon.

The issue with Doughty is that, like you sorta brought up, calling him only the 4th best defenceman in the league is seen as an insult to Doughty-fans.