2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion

[L K]

https://theathletic.com/446671/2018/10/02/mirtle-what-are-realistic-expectations-for-the-new-improved-kyle-dubas-led-maple-leafs-this-season/

Mirtle gives an overview of what changes the Leafs have made to the lineup (Tavares!) and how that might affect their standings this season.

More importantly, he got to talk to Morgan Rielly about what the D corps have been working on. Again, no coincidence there is going to be a fairly heavy Marlie presence on the roster.

?Me and Jake (Gardiner) really wanted to improve on that (D-zone play) and I feel like we put some time in during the off-season to work on specific skills that are going to help with that. I think that?ll lead to smoother breakouts. It?s (about making) quicker plays into the middle (of the ice).

?There?s a lot of responsibility on (our centres) to be in the right place just so the D-men can almost make a play without looking. There?s lots of plays where you try to pass the puck underneath a guy?s stick because that?s the only option, to go to the middle. We worked on that a lot. I feel like we?re a bit more comfortable in our system.?

Will that mean fewer hard outs and long passes out of the defensive zone?

?We?ll still do that,? Rielly said. ?Where the weak-side winger goes across the ice, up to that blueline, and try to get it to him. But not every time. I think there was times last year where, if we were in doubt, we would just do that automatically. I think this year we feel a little more comfortable and we?ll be able to make those plays underneath (the centreman) a little easier.?

That ability to make small, quick plays out of the zone always felt like a focal point for the Marlies last season but one that didn?t quite translate to the Leafs. That could change with slightly different personnel and a different mindset in place.

Rielly certainly made it sound like the Leafs would look more Marlies-like in that regard.

?You go back for a puck and you just want to get it to a forward?s hands as quick as you can,? he said of his focus in the off-season. ?Then jump up as the fourth guy in the rush without the puck. As opposed to try to carry it all the way up. Just go back and make one quick play and be out of the zone and going back and playing offence.

?Lots of (what I worked on this summer) has to do with defensive stuff. I don?t mean blocking shots and stuff. I mean the little smaller plays you have to make underneath people?s stick or little small ones over people?s stick. Me and Jake definitely spent a lot of time working on those little skills that are important for a D-man to be good at when breaking the puck out.

i.e. play defense like Dermott and Sandin.

I hope they do use the better outlet pass this year but I saw an awful lot of those bad stretch passes most of the night against Montreal.

 

[Coco-puffs]

I hope they do use the better outlet pass this year but I saw an awful lot of those bad stretch passes most of the night against Montreal.

The centerman needs to be in the right position and not being covered to well to use that option.  If those aren't there, then yes, you'll probably continue to see "bad" stretch passes.  But that is what they are being asked to do.

 

[Frank E]

I hope they do use the better outlet pass this year but I saw an awful lot of those bad stretch passes most of the night against Montreal.

The centerman needs to be in the right position and not being covered to well to use that option.  If those aren't there, then yes, you'll probably continue to see "bad" stretch passes.  But that is what they are being asked to do.

I think that when teams play good proper defense, like the habs did the other night, there isn't any avenue to complete these passes, so we see defenders going to plan B a bit, and carrying it up further than they normally would be comfortable, and that's also when you see them dump it in, once they've gone as far as the blue line.

Then some people complain that they're playing dump and chase.  Unfortunately, that can be the only way to spread out the opposing players when they're jamming up the neutral zone...get the puck past them.

The breakout plays make sense when your forwards get open, but when other teams effectively jam up the neutral zone, and the Leaf forwards don't fight to get open enough, there'll always be issues in completing those neat little neutral zone passing plays.

 

[rdowdall]

I hope they do use the better outlet pass this year but I saw an awful lot of those bad stretch passes most of the night against Montreal.

The centerman needs to be in the right position and not being covered to well to use that option.  If those aren't there, then yes, you'll probably continue to see "bad" stretch passes.  But that is what they are being asked to do.

I think that when teams play good proper defense, like the habs did the other night, there isn't any avenue to complete these passes, so we see defenders going to plan B a bit, and carrying it up further than they normally would be comfortable, and that's also when you see them dump it in, once they've gone as far as the blue line.

Then some people complain that they're playing dump and chase.  Unfortunately, that can be the only way to spread out the opposing players when they're jamming up the neutral zone...get the puck past them.

The breakout plays make sense when your forwards get open, but when other teams effectively jam up the neutral zone, and the Leaf forwards don't fight to get open enough, there'll always be issues in completing those neat little neutral zone passing plays.

We'll see what happens tomorrow night, but I think that some of the problem with the Leafs play the other night was players trying to be too pretty in some situations rather than just making the safe play.  There were a couple of times in the defensive zone where Matthews was trying to make a back hand pass towards the front of his own net.  I don't think those sorts of plays are going to get made in the second game. 

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/nickdesouza_/status/1049369174886305796

 

[Bullfrog]

I'm on #teamMarty

 

[cabber24]

Well, we went from great goaltending depth to no depth and no capable backup. I'll have to trust Dubas on this one. The first game was not pretty.

 

[Bender]

Morgan Rielly is tied with Matthews in points? What?

 

[Bullfrog]

Tavares, that selfish bastard: 6g 0a.  lol

 

[Zee]

Tavares, that selfish bastard: 6g 0a.  lol

Cy Young.

 

[herman]

How Babcock lines up the forwards, in my estimation:

In Babcock's ideal world, each forward line has a centre and a primary complementary transition winger/pseudo-centre of the opposite shooting hand: Matthews-Nylander, Kadri-Marner, Tavares-Marner. Swinging through low in the zone to pick up a slip pass from the retrieving defender, the centre goes up the ice with his primary winger and one defender in line with the rush, and one hanging back for support. The weak-side winger is already up the ice either open for a stretch pass, or backing off the defense to the blue line. If your primary winger is Nylander, then just let him do his thing and get open in the OZ.

The third man is the guy who is 'gud without the puck': Hyman, Marleau, Brown. He is ideally on the centre's backhand, as his primary role is not to play the puck in transition but to dig it out of the corners if the C and primary winger run into trouble moving up the ice with possession. He is probably the defensive 'conscience' in the eyes of fans, even though the responsibility Babcock places on the centre.

https://twitter.com/JeffVeillette/status/1049858930455793676

In Babcock's ideal world, he would have two of each left shooting and right shooting centres, one offensively inclined and one defensively inclined. Obviously the salary cap world is not ideal, so allowances have to be made. I'm pretty sure Babcock has his forwards in these buckets to mix and match with:

Centres (duh): Matthews, Tavares, Kadri, Gauthier, Lindholm
Primary wingers: Nylander, Marner
GwotP: Marleau, Hyman, Brown, Johnsson, Kapanen*, Ennis

* Kapanen is arguably a primary, but Babcock wants him to be a GwotP heavy forechecker; with his speed, I'd say that's not a bad call.

So what will happen when Nylander returns? I'd like to try this:

Kapanen - Matthews - Nylander
Hyman - Tavares - Marner
Marleau - Kadri - Brown
Johnsson/Lindholm - Lindholm/Gauthier - Leivo

 

[Kin]

I appreciate why this isn't the whole story but it says something pretty remarkable about this team when one of the good without the puck guys has the 33rd most goals in NHL history.

 

[Hobbes]

So what will happen when Nylander returns? I'd like to try this:

Kapanen - Matthews - Nylander
Hyman - Tavares - Marner
Marleau - Kadri - Brown
Johnsson/Lindholm - Lindholm/Gauthier - Leivo

I have a feeling that Babcock has Marleau mentally slotted to be the left wing on the 1st line and is most likely to try that first when Nylander returns. With any luck Kapanen only slips down to the 3rd line when that experiment starts.

I actually prefer your lines, though, since I think Kapanen can develop into the perfect complement to the line, and there's a good history with that Marleau-Kadri pairing from last year.

 

[herman]

I appreciate why this isn't the whole story but it says something pretty remarkable about this team when one of the good without the puck guys has the 33rd most goals in NHL history.

Maybe it should be re-categorized as "doesn't need to hold the puck to be good". These guys can't extend plays with their puck control, but are effective with minimal puck contact be it through shooting from soft ice (Marleau, Johnsson), or player displacement (Hyman), or defensive support (Komarov, Brown).

 

[ZBBM]

Morgan Rielly is tied with Matthews in points? What?

He's certainly playing his best yet offensively.  Don't know what the fancy stats say about the other side of the puck. 

 

[Kin]

I appreciate why this isn't the whole story but it says something pretty remarkable about this team when one of the good without the puck guys has the 33rd most goals in NHL history.

Maybe it should be re-categorized as "doesn't need to hold the puck to be good". These guys can't extend plays with their puck control, but are effective with minimal puck contact be it through shooting from soft ice (Marleau, Johnsson), or player displacement (Hyman), or defensive support (Komarov, Brown).
[/quote

I wasn't disagreeing with your assessment, Marleau is good without the puck. That he's still an effective goal scorer on top of that is just icing on a cake that's already got a buttload of icing on it.

 

[ZBBM]

I appreciate why this isn't the whole story but it says something pretty remarkable about this team when one of the good without the puck guys has the 33rd most goals in NHL history.

Since you brought him up I'll just say that I think most of us, myself included, don't appreciate how good he has been for the Leafs.  He may be invisible (or seemingly so) on a few nights, and he gets lost in the reflected sparkle of the youngsters, but I don't recall many games when he has hurt the Leafs.  And he still can skate with anyone, and make gorgeous plays, like the assist on the MTL winner.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

He's certainly playing his best yet offensively.  Don't know what the fancy stats say about the other side of the puck.

His CF is 51.7% right now, which is a touch higher than what he's posted the past few years (between 49.8%-50.8%). With that said his shots against, goals against, and expected goals against rates are fairly significantly worse than his norms. Granted, we're only talking about 4 (wild) games.

 

[herman]

I appreciate why this isn't the whole story but it says something pretty remarkable about this team when one of the good without the puck guys has the 33rd most goals in NHL history.

Maybe it should be re-categorized as "doesn't need to hold the puck to be good". These guys can't extend plays with their puck control, but are effective with minimal puck contact be it through shooting from soft ice (Marleau, Johnsson), or player displacement (Hyman), or defensive support (Komarov, Brown).

I wasn't disagreeing with your assessment, Marleau is good without the puck. That he's still an effective goal scorer on top of that is just icing on a cake that's already got a buttload of icing on it.

Oh I know. Your observation pointed out an opportunity for further clarification though. Every player bucket has a defensive or offensive inclination and it makes lineup making an interesting exercise in synergy.

 

[herman]

I have a feeling that Babcock has Marleau mentally slotted to be the left wing on the 1st line and is most likely to try that first when Nylander returns. With any luck Kapanen only slips down to the 3rd line when that experiment starts.

I actually prefer your lines, though, since I think Kapanen can develop into the perfect complement to the line, and there's a good history with that Marleau-Kadri pairing from last year.

Thanks!

I'm probably overthinking this, but I'm guessing Marleau with Matthews might be a Marleau-preservation thing. Playing with Kadri would be hard matching against top offensive lines. Playing with Matthews would net him their top checking units (and only a few teams have both in one line), and they'd invariably be focused on Matthews-Nylander. It's easier minutes playing offense in general.

That being said, when Matthews and Nylander get caught in their own zone, it's firewagon stuff.