2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[Kin]

Maybe how Keefe is going to survive benching Thornton for the season opener?

I mean that does sort of parallel something I was going to say. I don't mind the Leafs taking a chance on older veterans to round out the lineup and think it can be advantageous but part of that really has to be a commitment  to remember this isn't a farewell tour. Keefe is going to need to be committed to putting the best roster out there night after night without sentimentality playing a role.

 

[Bullfrog]

Boy, what are we going to talk about for the next 3 months?

Maybe how Keefe is going to survive benching Thornton for the season opener?

What should Marincin's 21/22 contract look like?

8 years, $5M total. ;D (Seriously, though, I hope it's finally time we've seen the last of him on the NHL team)

I don't have any problems with Marincin as a 6/7 guy. But with the current depth, I think we've seen the last of him outside of some catastrophic injury luck.

 

[herman]

Maybe how Keefe is going to survive benching Thornton for the season opener?

I mean that does sort of parallel something I was going to say. I don't mind the Leafs taking a chance on older veterans to round out the lineup and think it can be advantageous but part of that really has to be a commitment  to remember this isn't a farewell tour. Keefe is going to need to be committed to putting the best roster out there night after night without sentimentality playing a role.

I fully expect some roster leeway in the return to play rules for expanded rosters and associated cap calculations to help manage the compressed schedule and lack of AHL certainty.

Load managing Thornton, Spezza, Simmonds in and out of the lineup is to be expected if the Leafs have to play 4 in 5/6 or 3 in 3.

 

[herman]

He should be Marlies bound for sure. There's no way he should be in before Sandin.

I'd prefer Marincin sitting in the pressbox if it means Sandin/Liljegren can get regular top AHL/SHL minutes. Somewhat similar to what probably happens with Robertson vs Vesey.

 

[bustaheims]

I don't have any problems with Marincin as a 6/7 guy. But with the current depth, I think we've seen the last of him outside of some catastrophic injury luck.

He's a reasonable PK option, but, at even strength, plays just die on his stick (from both teams). His puck skills are basically zero. It also felt too easy for reasonably skilled attackers to force him in errors or turn him into a complete non-factor defensively at even-strength.

 

[Guilt Trip]

He should be Marlies bound for sure. There's no way he should be in before Sandin.

I'd prefer Marincin sitting in the pressbox if it means Sandin/Liljegren can get regular top AHL/SHL minutes. Somewhat similar to what probably happens with Robertson vs Vesey.

Robertson is a different case. Can only be sent down to junior.

 

[bustaheims]

I'd prefer Marincin sitting in the pressbox if it means Sandin/Liljegren can get regular top AHL/SHL minutes. Somewhat similar to what probably happens with Robertson vs Vesey.

Even without Sandin and Liljegren on the NHL squad, there are 7 guys well ahead of Marincin:

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Lehtonen-Dermott
Bogosian

Sandin, Liljegren, or even Rosen should all be ahead of Marincin when looking injury call ups.

 

[bustaheims]

Robertson is a different case. Can only be sent down to junior.

In a typical season, yeah, but in 20/21, who knows? For instance, what if the OHL season doesn't happen? Conversely, what if the AHL season doesn't happen?

Too many unresolved things there.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

In a typical season, yeah, but in 20/21, who knows? For instance, what if the OHL season doesn't happen? Conversely, what if the AHL season doesn't happen?

Too many unresolved things there.

I get why people are skeptical but I really can't see the OHL/AHL not operating in some manner this season. Maybe a handful of teams have to pull out and there will obviously be some bumps in the road but they'll power through. There's just too much on the line to not play, with the OHL in particular.

 

[Kin]

In a typical season, yeah, but in 20/21, who knows? For instance, what if the OHL season doesn't happen? Conversely, what if the AHL season doesn't happen?

Too many unresolved things there.

I get why people are skeptical but I really can't see the OHL/AHL not operating in some manner this season. Maybe a handful of teams have to pull out and there will obviously be some bumps in the road but they'll power through. There's just too much on the line to not play, with the OHL in particular.

My only question there is that the major leagues all had a big financial incentive to play because of TV deals. If AHL/OHL teams can't get fans in the building then playing may just not make financial sense.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

My only question there is that the major leagues all had a big financial incentive to play because of TV deals. If AHL/OHL teams can't get fans in the building then playing may just not make financial sense.

It might not make financial sense for a lot of teams sure, but I still think the pressure to have that developmental system will mean they'll just have to power through. Maybe the NHL cuts them a cheque to give the teams a little bit of assistance.

The QMJHL is up and running, despite some bumps in the road. And it looks like some of their teams are allowed to have some fans in the building. Obviously the WHL and OHL will need their respective governments to allow that to happen but generally speaking the provinces have been on the same page with their restrictions/openings so I'd imagine they'd get the OK.

One benefit a lot of these teams have is a lot of them are in smaller cities where case numbers aren't at crazy high rates. Maybes teams like Mississauga or Ottawa can't get fans but I feel like places where you're allowed to work out in a building without wearing a mask will probably get the ok to have spectators (with reduced capacity/social distancing/mask wearing ect). Not saying that's generally what I would do if I were running things, just more of a prediction based on what we've seen so far.

 

[bustaheims]

My only question there is that the major leagues all had a big financial incentive to play because of TV deals. If AHL/OHL teams can't get fans in the building then playing may just not make financial sense.

It might not make financial sense for a lot of teams sure, but I still think the pressure to have that developmental system will mean they'll just have to power through. Maybe the NHL cuts them a cheque to give the teams a little bit of assistance.

The QMJHL is up and running, despite some bumps in the road. And it looks like some of their teams are allowed to have some fans in the building. Obviously the WHL and OHL will need their respective governments to allow that to happen but generally speaking the provinces have been on the same page with their restrictions/openings so I'd imagine they'd get the OK.

One benefit a lot of these teams have is a lot of them are in smaller cities where case numbers aren't at crazy high rates. Maybes teams like Mississauga or Ottawa can't get fans but I feel like places where you're allowed to work out in a building without wearing a mask will probably get the ok to have spectators (with reduced capacity/social distancing/mask wearing ect). Not saying that's generally what I would do if I were running things, just more of a prediction based on what we've seen so far.

The problem is when smaller town teams come in to play teams in and around hot spots. There's a number of teams in the GTA, Windsor, and Ottawa areas. There's high potential for exposure on those road trips.

As for the QMJHL - Quebec hasn't exactly been a bastion of caution or a mark for success in this pandemic. They may be up and running with some fans, but, based on the province and its population's response to things, I question whether they should be.

 

[groundskeeper willie]

Maybe how Keefe is going to survive benching Thornton for the season opener?

I mean that does sort of parallel something I was going to say. I don't mind the Leafs taking a chance on older veterans to round out the lineup and think it can be advantageous but part of that really has to be a commitment  to remember this isn't a farewell tour. Keefe is going to need to be committed to putting the best roster out there night after night without sentimentality playing a role.

I fully expect some roster leeway in the return to play rules for expanded rosters and associated cap calculations to help manage the compressed schedule and lack of AHL certainty.

Load managing Thornton, Spezza, Simmonds in and out of the lineup is to be expected if the Leafs have to play 4 in 5/6 or 3 in 3.

I keep hearing about a possible taxi squad that won't count against the cap if there's no AHL season, but in order to get a player like Thornton or Spezza onto that squad and off the cap, wouldn't they still have to pass through waivers?

 

[Kin]

My only question there is that the major leagues all had a big financial incentive to play because of TV deals. If AHL/OHL teams can't get fans in the building then playing may just not make financial sense.

It might not make financial sense for a lot of teams sure, but I still think the pressure to have that developmental system will mean they'll just have to power through. Maybe the NHL cuts them a cheque to give the teams a little bit of assistance.

The QMJHL is up and running, despite some bumps in the road. And it looks like some of their teams are allowed to have some fans in the building. Obviously the WHL and OHL will need their respective governments to allow that to happen but generally speaking the provinces have been on the same page with their restrictions/openings so I'd imagine they'd get the OK.

One benefit a lot of these teams have is a lot of them are in smaller cities where case numbers aren't at crazy high rates. Maybes teams like Mississauga or Ottawa can't get fans but I feel like places where you're allowed to work out in a building without wearing a mask will probably get the ok to have spectators (with reduced capacity/social distancing/mask wearing ect). Not saying that's generally what I would do if I were running things, just more of a prediction based on what we've seen so far.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, I'm just wondering how things might look if things start to get a little worse given the way the numbers are trending.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

As for the QMJHL - Quebec hasn't exactly been a bastion of caution or a mark for success in this pandemic. They may be up and running with some fans, but, based on the province and its population's response to things, I question whether they should be.

Well sure but again I'd imagine you and I might question whether a lot of things should be open right now so I'm trying to look at this problem more from what I think the provinces will do and not us. And Quebec's numbers might be the worst in Canada but what measures have they taken/not taken that haven't been used by all the other provinces as well? Generally speaking they've all followed the same guidelines. Didn't Ontario watch Quebec open things like bars and restaurants before they did to predictable results, but then take the exact same actions shorty after? I'd just be surprised if that pattern didn't follow in regards to this situation.

 

[Frank E]

There are lots of complex issues...like if players have agreements to play for OHL teams, what's their out if there's no season?  Does that OHL team lose players/void agreements if they don't have a season?

I have to think that the OHL would seek out some financial support, maybe from NHL?  Same with AHL.  I have to think that they're going to lean on financiers to be able to put a product on the ice, then be hopeful that in 2021 things are back to normal.  If they don't put a product on the ice, how many of those players' agreements become null and void?

Interesting situation.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Maybe how Keefe is going to survive benching Thornton for the season opener?

I mean that does sort of parallel something I was going to say. I don't mind the Leafs taking a chance on older veterans to round out the lineup and think it can be advantageous but part of that really has to be a commitment  to remember this isn't a farewell tour. Keefe is going to need to be committed to putting the best roster out there night after night without sentimentality playing a role.

I fully expect some roster leeway in the return to play rules for expanded rosters and associated cap calculations to help manage the compressed schedule and lack of AHL certainty.

Load managing Thornton, Spezza, Simmonds in and out of the lineup is to be expected if the Leafs have to play 4 in 5/6 or 3 in 3.

I keep hearing about a possible taxi squad that won't count against the cap if there's no AHL season, but in order to get a player like Thornton or Spezza onto that squad and off the cap, wouldn't they still have to pass through waivers?

Yes. The "Taxi Squad" could very well be a possibility. The Cap isn't going to increase so a teams active roster will have to remain cap compliant and all those extras will have to go through waivers if not exempt.

 

[L K]

Boy, what are we going to talk about for the next 3 months?

Maybe how Keefe is going to survive benching Thornton for the season opener?

I'd rather see him benched if we play San Jose in San Jose.

 

[bustaheims]

Well sure but again I'd imagine you and I might question whether a lot of things should be open right now so I'm trying to look at this problem more from what I think the provinces will do and not us. And Quebec's numbers might be the worst in Canada but what measures have they taken/not taken that haven't been used by all the other provinces as well? Generally speaking they've all followed the same guidelines. Didn't Ontario watch Quebec open things like bars and restaurants before they did to predictable results, but then take the exact same actions shorty after? I'd just be surprised if that pattern didn't follow in regards to this situation.

Quebec's numbers aren't just the worst in Canada - they represent close to half of the cases in the country, while having just under 1/4 of the country's population (they have close to double the cases per capita as the next worst province, Alberta). Saying they've followed the same guidelines is being pretty generous. The provincial government may have tried imposing them, but the populace has not been anywhere near as compliant as the rest of the country. They were still having large indoor events when the rest of the country was barely leaving their houses. They've plateaued lately, but they're still generating a similar number of daily cases as Ontario, despite having less than 3/5 of our population. No other province should be following their example, nor should similar organizations in other provinces.

 

[Highlander]

I lived in Quebec for 5 years at one point in my life. The Quebecois are more European in the way they live. Larger family units, they like to congregate and have fun. I can see why the numbers are so high.