2023-24 NHL Thread

[Jolly good show chaps]

Also wondering what this could do to the salary cap for 2025/26 onwards. You'd think attendance at Utah games would be around three times higher with their 11k capacity than what the Coyotes were getting, and also with $200m apparently to be distributed among the other team owners as a result of the sale.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Amazing finish in Hockeytown. Was actually hoping the red Wings would pull it out and they did.

 

[bustaheims]

Also wondering what this could do to the salary cap for 2025/26 onwards. You'd think attendance at Utah games would be around three times higher with their 11k capacity than what the Coyotes were getting, and also with $200m apparently to be distributed among the other team owners as a result of the sale.

The $200M from the sale doesn't impact the cap.

 

[Kin]

I know a lot of people on this board wanted this move. I invested a lot of income over the years going to see the Leafs and other teams play the Yotes.  I had some really good times and am sad to see the franchise go.  I don't think the ownership group was paying there bills. Pity, as another group may have secured the Loop site and it would have worked there.  Salt Lake is one weird place

I don't think this is an entirely fair reading of the situation. The only reason anyone "wanted" this move is because the League trying to stay in Arizona moved past plan B or C and we're on Plan V at this point, a plan that has involved the team playing in a college arena the last few years. The only reason this ownership group owned the team in the first place is because the league had exhausted every single potential alternative. If "another group" had been capable of getting anything done arena-wise they would have owned the team.

This is a bad situation that has been going on so long that at one point it prominently involved an ownership bid from someone who made their money from Blackberries being the hot new tech. The league fought tooth and nail to keep the team put at the cost of millions of dollars.

I don't think anyone has, or ever really had, any actual bad feelings towards the Coyotes but at some point you just have to call the fight.

 

[Kin]

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/philboas/2023/05/17/why-tempe-vote-arizona-coyotes-failed-miserably/70227759007/

This was the beginning of the end. Less than a year later the team is moving to Utah. The Tempe site and proposal was great in my opinion and was going to be funded entirely with private money. Citizens voted no.

Leaving aside that this "private money" included the city spending 200 million on infrastructure upgrades to accommodate the building and 700 million in tax relief there was still the reality that this group, whose financing was always dubious, wanted the city on the hook for a pretty significant portion of the debt they'd be taking on in order to build the "entertainment district". If the project fell apart, the city would be on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars. These projects always, after independent analysis, are found to exaggerate the economic benefits.

I mean, think of it this way, if this project was this entirely privately funded enterprise which made a ton of economic sense without risk or cost to the city...why involve the city at all? Why not just build the thing?

 

[herman]

https://x.com/cap_kaveman/status/1780784470750322701

 

[Guilt Trip]

https://twitter.com/HockeyDaily365/status/1780834656159481935

 

[dappleganger]

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/philboas/2023/05/17/why-tempe-vote-arizona-coyotes-failed-miserably/70227759007/

This was the beginning of the end. Less than a year later the team is moving to Utah. The Tempe site and proposal was great in my opinion and was going to be funded entirely with private money. Citizens voted no.

Leaving aside that this "private money" included the city spending 200 million on infrastructure upgrades to accommodate the building and 700 million in tax relief there was still the reality that this group, whose financing was always dubious, wanted the city on the hook for a pretty significant portion of the debt they'd be taking on in order to build the "entertainment district". If the project fell apart, the city would be on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars. These projects always, after independent analysis, are found to exaggerate the economic benefits.

I mean, think of it this way, if this project was this entirely privately funded enterprise which made a ton of economic sense without risk or cost to the city...why involve the city at all? Why not just build the thing?

If you watch the video below, 16:50 to 23:45, it addresses the infrastructure and some parameters of the proposed deal:

[youtube]Ezx9_15Evu4[/youtube]

 

[cabber24]

What do you think about PHI pulling their goalie when they were already eliminated? I guess Tororella didn't know PHI was already eliminated when he pulled the goalie (minutes in real-time). I think Detroit has a right to be pissy about the situation. This is the NHL and teams should not be pulling goalies in a tie game when the outcome does not affect their team. I feel Tororella should have been told by his organization not to pull his goalie since they were already eliminated. Had PHI won DET would be in the playoffs.

 

[bustaheims]

What do you think about PHI pulling their goalie when they were already eliminated? I guess Tororella didn't know PHI was already eliminated when he pulled the goalie (minutes in real-time). I think Detroit has a right to be pissy about the situation. This is the NHL and teams should not be pulling goalies in a tie game when the outcome does not affect their team. I feel Tororella should have been told by his organization not to pull his goalie since they were already eliminated. Had PHI won DET would be in the playoffs.

If Philly/Torts had ample time to be informed they were eliminated, sure, but, with the information they had at the time, they believed they needed a regulation win to have a shot at a playoff spot. And, the league shouldn't be dictating strategies to teams. It's not like they decided they preferred to see Washington in that spot ahead of Detroit.

The Wings can be as upset as they want, but there was little that could be done to really avoid this situation. The Flyers were doing everything they felt could maximize their chances of making the playoffs. That's their right. It's not their fault the Wings needed everything to go their way in various teams' final games of the season.

 

[herman]

What do you think about PHI pulling their goalie when they were already eliminated? I guess Tororella didn't know PHI was already eliminated when he pulled the goalie (minutes in real-time). I think Detroit has a right to be pissy about the situation. This is the NHL and teams should not be pulling goalies in a tie game when the outcome does not affect their team. I feel Tororella should have been told by his organization not to pull his goalie since they were already eliminated. Had PHI won DET would be in the playoffs.

If Philly/Torts had ample time to be informed they were eliminated, sure, but, with the information they had at the time, they believed they needed a regulation win to have a shot at a playoff spot. And, the league shouldn't be dictating strategies to teams. It's not like they decided they preferred to see Washington in that spot ahead of Detroit.

The Wings can be as upset as they want, but there was little that could be done to really avoid this situation. The Flyers were doing everything they felt could maximize their chances of making the playoffs. That's their right. It's not their fault the Wings needed everything to go their way in various teams' final games of the season.

I saw a tweet saying they had about 90 seconds between being eliminated and Tortorella pulling the goalie. There's literally no time unless someone on staff was watching the other game.

 

[bustaheims]

I saw a tweet saying they had about 90 seconds between being eliminated and Tortorella pulling the goalie. There's literally no time unless someone on staff was watching the other game.

Yeah. That's extremely tight. Someone in Philly's room would have needed to have been watching the game to get the info to Torts in time. Sucks for Detroit, but, that's what happens when you put your fate in the hands of other teams.

 

[cw]

What do you think about PHI pulling their goalie when they were already eliminated? I guess Tororella didn't know PHI was already eliminated when he pulled the goalie (minutes in real-time). I think Detroit has a right to be pissy about the situation. This is the NHL and teams should not be pulling goalies in a tie game when the outcome does not affect their team. I feel Tororella should have been told by his organization not to pull his goalie since they were already eliminated. Had PHI won DET would be in the playoffs.

If Philly/Torts had ample time to be informed they were eliminated, sure, but, with the information they had at the time, they believed they needed a regulation win to have a shot at a playoff spot. And, the league shouldn't be dictating strategies to teams. It's not like they decided they preferred to see Washington in that spot ahead of Detroit.

The Wings can be as upset as they want, but there was little that could be done to really avoid this situation. The Flyers were doing everything they felt could maximize their chances of making the playoffs. That's their right. It's not their fault the Wings needed everything to go their way in various teams' final games of the season.

I saw a tweet saying they had about 90 seconds between being eliminated and Tortorella pulling the goalie. There's literally no time unless someone on staff was watching the other game.

I was flipping between the Washington-Philly game and the Detroit game and the scoreboard.
I didn't realize Philly was eliminated before they pulled their goalie. I never knew about it until the media reported it. The Wings looked like they were going to lose - they tied it up with 5 seconds left and then won in OT.
And I missed the empty net goal while I was flipping around.

 

[cabber24]

I saw a tweet saying they had about 90 seconds between being eliminated and Tortorella pulling the goalie. There's literally no time unless someone on staff was watching the other game.

Yeah. That's extremely tight. Someone in Philly's room would have needed to have been watching the game to get the info to Torts in time. Sucks for Detroit, but, that's what happens when you put your fate in the hands of other teams.

They review offsides in real time... I suppose it can take 90 seconds to let the dust settle (to determine no reason to challenge a goal) and if Torts was told he was eliminated, didn't pull the goalie and then it got overturned, PHI would be irate. I do think if there was adequate time to let him know they should though. His team should let him know, it's not the league's job to.

Rough way to go down for Detroit but yes, don't put yourself in those situations would be the solution.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

It feels like a moot point. It the Flyers don't pull the goalie there then the game goes to overtime where the Capitals could and probably would have still won. Especially since it would have been clear then that Philly's season was officially over while Washington would be playing for their playoff lives to earn a point.

 

[Bender]

What do you think about PHI pulling their goalie when they were already eliminated? I guess Tororella didn't know PHI was already eliminated when he pulled the goalie (minutes in real-time). I think Detroit has a right to be pissy about the situation. This is the NHL and teams should not be pulling goalies in a tie game when the outcome does not affect their team. I feel Tororella should have been told by his organization not to pull his goalie since they were already eliminated. Had PHI won DET would be in the playoffs.

If Philly/Torts had ample time to be informed they were eliminated, sure, but, with the information they had at the time, they believed they needed a regulation win to have a shot at a playoff spot. And, the league shouldn't be dictating strategies to teams. It's not like they decided they preferred to see Washington in that spot ahead of Detroit.

The Wings can be as upset as they want, but there was little that could be done to really avoid this situation. The Flyers were doing everything they felt could maximize their chances of making the playoffs. That's their right. It's not their fault the Wings needed everything to go their way in various teams' final games of the season.

Absolutely. If you want to get in to the playoffs then play better. I can't think of something that has caused controversy that we should be caring less about.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

Weren't the Leafs in similar situation a number of years ago where New Jersey did something we were pissed off about and the Leafs hence forth missed the play offs?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Weren't the Leafs in similar situation a number of years ago where New Jersey did something we were pissed off about and the Leafs hence forth missed the play offs?

That was way, way, way, way back in 2007 (Bryan McCabe still played!) and the Devils started their back-up Scott Clemmensen instead of Brodeur in the final regular season game against the Islanders. Wade Dubielewicz won the game for the Islanders in a shootout and put them in 8th place over the Leafs.

Really not the same thing. Fans were certainly unhappy that Brodeur didn't start (the game was meaningless to New Jersey) but it's not like the organization would have had any gripes.

 

[Kin]

If you watch the video below, 16:50 to 23:45, it addresses the infrastructure and some parameters of the proposed deal:

If you never had politicians who weren't willing to do the work of the billionaires and try to sell people on the economic benefits of arenas(which there's near unanimous consensus on from actual economists who study the issue are wildly inflated and don't measure up to nearly any other use of public funds) then these things would never get built. What they ran into here was that the people of Glendale heard these same arguments, bought into them and then watched as their city was hit by an utter catastrophe by thinking a sports team was going to be a meaningful economic driver for them so it's no surprise the people of Tempe saw all that and decided to pass.

Then, the projects get built and the politicians pat themselves on the back and point to the bright shiny building when they're running for another office and are nowhere to be found 5 or 10 years later when the economic benefits they promise don't materialize and the owners are already demanding more money. Look at what Phoenix recently, and is still, going through with the Diamondbacks making threats about moving with a not yet even 20 year old stadium.

 

[Highlander]

I would point out that the Cardinals NFL stadium is located directly beside the Gila Rink. Plenty of very good resto's around the venue, a nice place to spend some time. I am sad to see them move.