2023-24 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[CarltonTheBear]

Benoit to his credit has also had very good on-ice numbers through his 5 games up. 60.2% CF, 66.8% GF, and 72% xGF. All tops among Leafs D. I don't think the eye test has quite matched those numbers for sure (or even been close really) but hey can't really complain about those results from your 8/9/10 defencemen types. Both him and Lagesson have also helped settle down the PK in the limited minutes they've had there. Solid showings from our depth defencemen.

 

[herman]

https://x.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1726632782426964334
it's always funny to see what 'rival execs' will say anonymously.
The range being proffered by these professionals is 9-12.25M over 8 years.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I feel like he should still be south of the Pastrnak contract. Pasta had 6 seasons of PPG play when he signed that deal, including his giga-PPG contract season and a similar 1.35 PPG season a few years prior in 19/20. Nylander's had just 2 PPG seasons prior to this one, which is of course setting up for a giga-PPG contract year.

With that said I also don't really care anymore, any Willy contract is a good Willy contract.

 

[herman]

any Willy contact is a good Willy contact.

I read it like this

 

[L K]

I feel like he should still be south of the Pastrnak contract. Pasta had 6 seasons of PPG play when he signed that deal, including his giga-PPG contract season and a similar 1.35 PPG season a few years prior in 19/20. Nylander's had just 2 PPG seasons prior to this one, which is of course setting up for a giga-PPG contract year.

With that said I also don't really care anymore, any Willy contract is a good Willy contract.

We've past the point of being able to walk away from him IMO.  This level of play is just too good to let him walk and unless an absurd trade comes along the team is significantly worse moving forward if they lose him.

I'd still hope they could find a way to keep the number below 11M but if it takes 11 I think I'd do it and just accept that the team might be really bad next year or have to have a bit of a makeshift lineup with a lot of AHL/Minten/Cowen players taking middle and bottom 6 roles.

 

[ZBBM]

Benoit to his credit has also had very good on-ice numbers through his 5 games up. 60.2% CF, 66.8% GF, and 72% xGF. All tops among Leafs D. I don't think the eye test has quite matched those numbers for sure (or even been close really) but hey can't really complain about those results from your 8/9/10 defencemen types. Both him and Lagesson have also helped settle down the PK in the limited minutes they've had there. Solid showings from our depth defencemen.

They have been rather amazing (in their roles), actually.  I basically never want to hear the names of the 3rd pair during a broadcast, and just want to see them pumping pucks out of our end whether at evens or on the penalty kill.  A very pleasant surprise.

 

[ZBBM]

I feel like he should still be south of the Pastrnak contract. Pasta had 6 seasons of PPG play when he signed that deal, including his giga-PPG contract season and a similar 1.35 PPG season a few years prior in 19/20. Nylander's had just 2 PPG seasons prior to this one, which is of course setting up for a giga-PPG contract year.

With that said I also don't really care anymore, any Willy contract is a good Willy contract.

We've past the point of being able to walk away from him IMO.  This level of play is just too good to let him walk and unless an absurd trade comes along the team is significantly worse moving forward if they lose him.

I'd still hope they could find a way to keep the number below 11M but if it takes 11 I think I'd do it and just accept that the team might be really bad next year or have to have a bit of a makeshift lineup with a lot of AHL/Minten/Cowen players taking middle and bottom 6 roles.

So Tavares' contract is done after next year, yes?

What they do about re-signing him is even more interesting than Nylander's contract.  How low will he go?  Because he's still a very effective player.

 

[Frank E]

Maybe Nylander needs the kind of pressure that comes with an expiring contract?

If that's the case, what's the hurry from the Leafs' side?

 

[Arn]

Maybe Nylander needs the kind of pressure that comes with an expiring contract?

If that's the case, what's the hurry from the Leafs' side?

A succession of one year deals.

 

[herman]

When Nylander's next contract comes into effect:
Matthews: +1.61M (11.64 --> 13.25)
Nylander: +2.7-3.6M? (6.9M --> 9.6-10.5M?)
Robertson: ?
Gregor: ?
Liljegren: ?
Benoit: ?

Bertuzzi: -5.5M
Domi: -3M
Muzzin: -5.5M
Brodie: -5M
Klingberg: -4.15M
Giordano: -0.80M
Lagesson: -0.78M
Murray: -4.68M
Samsonov: -3.6M


You can pay for Nylander's raise simply by not signing a Klingberg. Matthews' raise probably gets taken care of by the cap going up.


The year after, Tavares' 11M comes down to whatever he signs next (will he sign an Italian special?), which can blunt the minimal raise Marner is due (<2M).

 

[dappleganger]

I feel like he should still be south of the Pastrnak contract. Pasta had 6 seasons of PPG play when he signed that deal, including his giga-PPG contract season and a similar 1.35 PPG season a few years prior in 19/20. Nylander's had just 2 PPG seasons prior to this one, which is of course setting up for a giga-PPG contract year.

With that said I also don't really care anymore, any Willy contract is a good Willy contract.

We've past the point of being able to walk away from him IMO.  This level of play is just too good to let him walk and unless an absurd trade comes along the team is significantly worse moving forward if they lose him.

I'd still hope they could find a way to keep the number below 11M but if it takes 11 I think I'd do it and just accept that the team might be really bad next year or have to have a bit of a makeshift lineup with a lot of AHL/Minten/Cowen players taking middle and bottom 6 roles.

So Tavares' contract is done after next year, yes?

What they do about re-signing him is even more interesting than Nylander's contract.  How low will he go?  Because he's still a very effective player.

2 x $7.75m?

 

[ZBBM]

I feel like he should still be south of the Pastrnak contract. Pasta had 6 seasons of PPG play when he signed that deal, including his giga-PPG contract season and a similar 1.35 PPG season a few years prior in 19/20. Nylander's had just 2 PPG seasons prior to this one, which is of course setting up for a giga-PPG contract year.

With that said I also don't really care anymore, any Willy contract is a good Willy contract.

We've past the point of being able to walk away from him IMO.  This level of play is just too good to let him walk and unless an absurd trade comes along the team is significantly worse moving forward if they lose him.

I'd still hope they could find a way to keep the number below 11M but if it takes 11 I think I'd do it and just accept that the team might be really bad next year or have to have a bit of a makeshift lineup with a lot of AHL/Minten/Cowen players taking middle and bottom 6 roles.

So Tavares' contract is done after next year, yes?

What they do about re-signing him is even more interesting than Nylander's contract.  How low will he go?  Because he's still a very effective player.

2 x $7.75m?

I'm not a salary guru but this seems reasonable unless he falls off a cliff.  If we wants more term, it has to be significantly lower.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

2 x $7.75m?

I'm not a salary guru but this seems reasonable unless he falls off a cliff.  If we wants more term, it has to be significantly lower.

Some recent comparables that jump out:

Kopitar 2 year $7mil AAV
Malkin 4 year $6.1mil AAV
Giroux 3 year $6.5mil AAV
Pavelski 3 year, $7mil AAV

Kopitar and Malkin were both a little older when those deals kick(ed) in which is noteworthy but I'd probably put them both on a slightly higher level than Tavares too (not a knock on the captain though). Both players, like Tavares surely would, left money on the table to stay where they were and help their teams. So something like one of those two deals is what I'd think we could expect.

 

[Kaberle15]

Tavares gets Nylander's cap hit, Nylander gets Tavares Cap hit - 500K

Leafs save 500K.

 

[Arn]

Hard cap systems suck. I don't get why the NHL is afraid of a team building a dynasty.

(Well, I do, it's cos they don't want teams being perennial losers and not making money and potentially going bust, like Arizona)

But even as primarily a Leafs fan, and even if you hate them, there's still something about watching teams like the Islanders or Red Wings.

I hate that a team can draft a player or group of players, develop them, build a team out of them, then cos of an arbitrary number have to either try and make them take less money than they deserve, or break up the team by selling off or letting them go.

Why can't we have organisations be allowed to build the best teams. Do a luxury tax or something.

 

[dappleganger]

Hard cap systems suck. I don't get why the NHL is afraid of a team building a dynasty.

(Well, I do, it's cos they don't want teams being perennial losers and not making money and potentially going bust, like Arizona)

But even as primarily a Leafs fan, and even if you hate them, there's still something about watching teams like the Islanders or Red Wings.

I hate that a team can draft a player or group of players, develop them, build a team out of them, then cos of an arbitrary number have to either try and make them take less money than they deserve, or break up the team by selling off or letting them go.

Why can't we have organisations be allowed to build the best teams. Do a luxury tax or something.

Make it a Luxury cap on a two-for-one system. Leafs spend $10m over the cap, they have to pay $20m spread out to all the other teams under the cap.

 

[Arn]

Honestly, I feel like a system like that could comfortably better support the likes of Arizona.

And the Leafs have proven over many years that having the most money doesn't even make you the best team.

 

[herman]

The Leafs have only two players who can boast being legitimate one-man attackers that are the complete package of mobility, ice awareness, effective physicality on the boards, playmaking ability, and shooting prowess. These are the players you want to hang on to for as long as possible. All those previous skills he developed over the years--weaving through the NZ as a youth, quick hands in tight, claiming his space in dirty ice--have coalesced into what Willy is today: a finesse power forward.

[youtube]dK4NlwrhL_Y[/youtube]
https://x.com/MikeKellyNHL/status/1726268862193352712

 

[ZBBM]

The Leafs have only two players who can boast being legitimate one-man attackers that are the complete package of mobility, ice awareness, effective physicality on the boards, playmaking ability, and shooting prowess. These are the players you want to hang on to for as long as possible. All those previous skills he developed over the years--weaving through the NZ as a youth, quick hands in tight, claiming his space in dirty ice--have coalesced into what Willy is today: a finesse power forward.

[youtube]dK4NlwrhL_Y[/youtube]
https://twitter.com/MikeKellyNHL/status/1726268862193352712

Well, yeah and all that, BUT he spoke Swedish on that talk show gig over in Stockholm instead of the language the Leafs operate in.  Tells me he's got an attitude problem.

 

[herman]

With 10 games played Lagesson is going to require waivers again if/when he's reassigned to the Marlies. I think he's basically blown past any expectations people had for him this season and unless his play drops like a rock at some point I'd be pretty surprised to see him clear again this season. Obviously with injuries and stuff it might not even come to that but something to keep in mind.

If Klingberg goes to LTIR and we waive Reaves instead of trying to galaxy brain anything, Lagesson should just stay up with the Leafs to spell Giordano's minutes every so often.

Currently:
Rielly-Brodie
Giordano-McCabe
Benoit-Lagesson
Klingberg

Healthy:
Rielly-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren
McCabe-Timmins
Lagesson

Rotato-potato

Really good to see: Jake McCabe adjusting to RD; when we traded for him, I thought he had some Ron Hainsey to his game, but a much better skater. If he doesn't mind just playing conservatively rather than pinching so aggressively, he's solid.