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2023 Draft Discussion

Significantly Insignificant said:
I think the draft ended the draft as a T.V. show. Last night was not the most compelling thing that I have ever watched.  I need the NHL to save me from myself.
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All of my criticisms aside, I bet the NHL draft does reasonably decent numbers during one of the deader times of the year for sports programming. So, no, they probably want to keep it. 

Significantly Insignificant said:
I understand what you are saying.  That there is no point in keeping any kind of draft type system in place if it offers any flexibility at all because flexibility is an all or nothing thing.  I thought that maybe there was a hybrid type system out there that could offer some flexibility, but still provide some advantages to lower end teams.  Even in the scenario that I offered up, you would need to flip the order of the draft because the last pick in the tier would hold all the power because you could pick a player that no one else had negotiation rights too.  The Stanley Cup winner would need to go first. 
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Yeah, I have to be honest, that makes even less sense to me. And I don't think you've really summed up what I am saying. I'm not saying flexibility is an all or nothing thing. Players still have the option now of not signing with the teams that drafted them as we've seen before in the past.

What I'm saying is you're eliminating the entire point of the draft without replacing it with anything meaningful.

Significantly Insignificant said:
I get what you are saying though.  In the scenario that I offered up, no one would ever go to Arizona.  Really though, who does that hurt?       
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Every small market and struggling team.
 
Nik said:
What I'm saying is you're eliminating the entire point of the draft without replacing it with anything meaningful.
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What I am saying is that the flaw in any system that gives the player choice is that it will remove the ability of bad teams to build through the draft.  The fact that the players don't have a choice on where they go means that they have to go to the team that drafts them.  If you give them a choice, there is a chance they will not go to the bad team that wanted them.  You can't replace any draft type system with anything that has a semblance of choice for the player, because they can choose to go elsewhere. 


Nik said:
Every small market and struggling team.
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A free market system would more than likely kill those teams as well.  If the draft was removed entirely, those types of teams likely wouldn't survive.   
 
Significantly Insignificant said:
You can't replace any draft type system with anything that has a semblance of choice for the player, because they can choose to go elsewhere.
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Well, you can, you would just need to replace it with something that provides incentives for players to sign with smaller clubs. So, for instance, if you eliminated the draft but also eliminated a rookie wage scale then teams with cap space(usually bad teams) could offer highly sought after prospects more money than teams without cap space(usually good teams). But by eliminating the draft and not allowing for financial incentives, it's a double whammy for the teams on the bottom.

For comparison's sake you can look at how MLB handles their bonus pool system. That gives players some manner of choice both in terms of international players exempt from the draft as well as draft-eligible players pre-negotiating their bonuses while giving the teams on the bottom more money to offer the players they draft.     


Significantly Insignificant said:
A free market system would more than likely kill those teams as well.  If the draft was removed entirely, those types of teams likely wouldn't survive.   
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Again, probably not so long as you let them spend money on rookies but regardless, I'm ok with the impact a free market system would have on those teams. The NHL isn't. So I'm not confused as to why the NHL has the system they do.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
I'd love to know how you even go about getting "intel" on other teams draft lists.
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Wes: "hey Johnny, what do you guys think about that Cowan dude?  We really like him!"
Johnny: "oh...who...oh yeah...Cowan, let me see here...flips 4 pages....oh yes, yes, we have him REALLY HIGH"
Wes: "thought so, thanks Johnny" *smug grin*
 
CarltonTheBear said:
I'd love to know how you even go about getting "intel" on other teams draft lists.
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I've seen a couple places suggest he was likely going to be an early 2nd rounder, so, there was definitely some chatter around him. Scouts talk, and, while I'm sure they don't straight up reveal how they've ranked player, I'm sure experienced guys get a sense of things based on informal conversations, knowing which teams interviewed him, etc.
 
Zee said:
CarltonTheBear said:
I'd love to know how you even go about getting "intel" on other teams draft lists.
Click to expand...

Wes: "hey Johnny, what do you guys think about that Cowan dude?  We really like him!"
Johnny: "oh...who...oh yeah...Cowan, let me see here...flips 4 pages....oh yes, yes, we have him REALLY HIGH"
Wes: "thought so, thanks Johnny" *smug grin*
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"Oh you like Cowan, well we're taking Cowan". 
 
bustaheims said:
f
I've seen a couple places suggest he was likely going to be an early 2nd rounder, so, there was definitely some chatter around him. Scouts talk, and, while I'm sure they don't straight up reveal how they've ranked player, I'm sure experienced guys get a sense of things based on informal conversations, knowing which teams interviewed him, etc.
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Also you have to figure that there's enough of a divide between scouts and the GM that a scout can be honest with another team's scout and not worry about whether or not the GM then later decides to trade up or back or whatever. Especially if the two teams aren't drafting particularly near each other.
 
Bender said:
Deebo said:
Highlander said:
We only have 3 picks???
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2nd went for Gio
3rd was in the Lybushkin Deal
4th went for a 4th last year (Hiddleby)
7th was in that McCann deal
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The cupboard is stocked boys! 😂
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Is it all that bad, SDA chose to stick around, come on guys, remain positive, we only have 3 of the top players in the league on our 1st and 2nd lines. And maybe Knies will prove out as well. Robertson may actually show up without an injury and Topi is not that far away. One thing Dubas left us was a hell of development system and we have to give him kudos for that.  I was pissed when Kyle went away but now not so much, lets see what he does with Pittsburgh and in 3-5 years we can all review.
And for those who dislike Keefer, he has the most winning record % in regular season of any Leaf coach (ever).  Do you think he would be back if Matthews didn't want him back?
 
CarltonTheBear said:
I'd love to know how you even go about getting "intel" on other teams draft lists.
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Don?t you remember Burke back in the day asking Ottawa who they wanted to draft and they said Kadri and then burke said ?yeah we?re going to draft him?
 
Rob said:
Zee said:
CarltonTheBear said:
I'd love to know how you even go about getting "intel" on other teams draft lists.
Click to expand...

Wes: "hey Johnny, what do you guys think about that Cowan dude?  We really like him!"
Johnny: "oh...who...oh yeah...Cowan, let me see here...flips 4 pages....oh yes, yes, we have him REALLY HIGH"
Wes: "thought so, thanks Johnny" *smug grin*
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"Oh you like Cowan, well we're taking Cowan".
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Yeah - that?s the burke quote.
 
https://twitter.com/kpapetti/status/1674544304553951235
The exact day the Leaf scouts were there, eh
 
Saw Treliving post draft press conference.
[youtube]pS-Fof1REyI[/youtube]

I take him at his word that it was a significant pre draft strategy and they tried very hard to trade down and get more picks. When you go off the board as much as they did - way more than anyone else in the first round, I expected there would have been some sort of a deal to be had. Evidently, there was not so I've cooled off some. When I thought about it, if I were a NHL GM, I'd be hard pressed to do such a deal - it would have to be pretty strong in my teams favor (ie if my club already had a bunch of prospects or if the other team was overpaying significantly).

Based on past drafts, I figured when they went off the board as much as they did, getting a deal done would have been easier. Maybe GMs are wising up.

I still have mixed feelings about Cowan. As usual, I'm hoping for the best.
 
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