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2024-25 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

The Leafs were 12-6-3 last year on December 1st. They had 73GF and 70GA

Sammy was terrible during this stretch which accounts a decent amount for the difference of 18 goals against better. The defensive structure is absolutely better though. They are more physical along the boards and are keeping teams out of the slot considerably better than in years past. Tanev in front of the net in particular is a wizard at boxing guys out.

Obviously you can't just swap production but Matthews had 14 goals through the end of November last year. He is sitting on 5 right now because he was playing hurt/missed games. Add in Matthews additional 9 goals (and man did he have a lot of chances that a healthy Matthews likely buries) and they would be sitting at 73 GF.

The depth scoring is still an issue although our depth gets better if guys are healthy. I like what Minten/Grebenkin/Nylander/Steeves provided although I think Minten isn't really ready to be the net front guy on PP1.

If Reaves is still playing when Matthews/Domi/Knies come back we have a problem because I would take every other forward over him.
 
L K said:
If Reaves is still playing when Matthews/Domi/Knies come back we have a problem because I would take every other forward over him.
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Tempted to say the Leafs could also move on from Kampf also. Worst case, Holmberg goes to 4C when everyone is healthy.
 
I'm certainly not shy about saying I'd like to trade Kampf but I really can't see the Leafs even considering that unless they pick up a defensive 3C. The safety net that he provides (or at least the team thinks he provides) is just too big if Domi, Holmberg, or even Minten is at 3C.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
I'm certainly not shy about saying I'd like to trade Kampf but I really can't see the Leafs even considering that unless they pick up a defensive 3C. The safety net that he provides (or at least the team thinks he provides) is just too big if Domi, Holmberg, or even Minten is at 3C.
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Agreed. I'm not sure any of the in-house options are ready to step up into that kind of role right now. They'd definitely need to bring in a replacement before/as part of shipping Kampf out.
 
Petrielli's notes today imply that maybe if Dewar keeps improving he might at some point make Kämpf expendable, but he says Dewar's not there yet.

On another note, I don't quite know what Petrielli is seeing in Steeves, who he thinks should be the last to get sent down of the group that includes Grebenkin, AN92, and Minten.
 
ZBBM said:
On another note, I don't quite know what Petrielli is seeing in Steeves, who he thinks should be the last to get sent down of the group that includes Grebenkin, AN92, and Minten.
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Because Steeves' development matters the least. And he has been effective in his assignment.
 
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As much as I'd like Domi to not exist on this team... we have the makings of a top-9 and he can contribute in a couple of permutations. Give Tavares the checking assignment, and if he is too slow for a particular matchup, swap with Matthews accordingly.

McMann-Tavares-Marner
Knies-Matthews-Domi
Pacioretty/Robertson-Holmberg-Nylander
Lorentz-Kampf-Dewar

Knies-Matthews-Marner
Pacioretty-Tavares-Nylander
McMann-Domi-Holmberg/Robertson
Lorentz-Kampf-Dewar
 
I would like Berube attempt to utlize Kampf before dumping him
herman said:
As much as I'd like Domi to not exist on this team... we have the makings of a top-9 and he can contribute in a couple of permutations. Give Tavares the checking assignment, and if he is too slow for a particular matchup, swap with Matthews accordingly.

McMann-Tavares-Marner
Knies-Matthews-Domi
Pacioretty/Robertson-Holmberg-Nylander
Lorentz-Kampf-Dewar

Knies-Matthews-Marner
Pacioretty-Tavares-Nylander
McMann-Domi-Holmberg/Robertson
Lorentz-Kampf-Dewar
Click to expand...
Forget Holmberg, he's a bumb.

Pac-Tavares-Nylander
Knies-Matthews-Domi
McMann-Kampf-Marner
Lorentz-Dewar-Holmberg/Reeves
 
Joe S. said:
Sure - but you’d think Nylander is well past the development stage as well no?
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Actually, I think Alex Nylander still has things to develop; and he thinks so too as he otherwise would've taken a different NHL offer in the offseason. He doesn't have much runway left, but his mechanics and game processing needs some work to realize the potential of his toolkit. He's taller and longer than Willy, but his skating is much, much weaker despite having basically the same training all their lives (less ankle flexion, and maybe just not as much of a nerd about edgework). Getting drafted by Buffalo in the midst of their crashing and burning did not help his development at all and gave him some poor habits (worse defensively than Willy!). Right now, he's solid triggerman, but has limited value everywhere else on the ice.

Like Robertson, he can't play 4th line in that it's a waste of his abilities but also outside his physical tools; Steeves can and has added some stronger puck management options to that line of chip and chasers. Steeves has maxed his development and just needs opportunity.
 
cabber24 said:
McMann-Kampf-Marner
Click to expand...

I get the idea behind this, and they have existing PK chemistry, but it's a waste of Marner to use him like this for pure defense. Pure defense wingers can be had for cheaper, so if you have a Marner in the lineup, he should go in a matchup role that has talented shooters and space makers with him. If Kampf was replaced with say... Ryan O'Reilly, then yeah, for sure this would rock so hard.
 
herman said:
Actually, I think Alex Nylander still has things to develop; and he thinks so too as he otherwise would've taken a different NHL offer in the offseason. He doesn't have much runway left, but his mechanics and game processing needs some work to realize the potential of his toolkit. He's taller and longer than Willy, but his skating is much, much weaker despite having basically the same training all their lives (less ankle flexion, and maybe just not as much of a nerd about edgework). Getting drafted by Buffalo in the midst of their crashing and burning did not help his development at all and gave him some poor habits (worse defensively than Willy!). Right now, he's solid triggerman, but has limited value everywhere else on the ice.

Like Robertson, he can't play 4th line in that it's a waste of his abilities but also outside his physical tools; Steeves can and has added some stronger puck management options to that line of chip and chasers. Steeves has maxed his development and just needs opportunity.
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I think A. Nylander could be a 4th line guy. He's got the size. There are plenty of older players that adjust their games, Jeff Carter to move down the lineup and contribute in a different way. It hasn't worked offensively for him yet because if he was good enough, they'd overlook his shortcomings on D like they did with 88 for years. Robertson could too but is definitely limited because of his size.
 
cabber24 said:
I would like Berube attempt to utlize Kampf before dumping him

Forget Holmberg, he's a bumb.

Pac-Tavares-Nylander
Knies-Matthews-Domi
McMann-Kampf-Marner
Lorentz-Dewar-Holmberg/Reeves
Click to expand...

Pac-Tavares-McMann
Knies-Matthews-Domi
Nylander-Kampf-Marner
Lorentz-Dewar-Reeves

Good luck with that opposing teams.
 
herman said:
Actually, I think Alex Nylander still has things to develop; and he thinks so too as he otherwise would've taken a different NHL offer in the offseason. He doesn't have much runway left, but his mechanics and game processing needs some work to realize the potential of his toolkit. He's taller and longer than Willy, but his skating is much, much weaker despite having basically the same training all their lives (less ankle flexion, and maybe just not as much of a nerd about edgework). Getting drafted by Buffalo in the midst of their crashing and burning did not help his development at all and gave him some poor habits (worse defensively than Willy!). Right now, he's solid triggerman, but has limited value everywhere else on the ice.

Like Robertson, he can't play 4th line in that it's a waste of his abilities but also outside his physical tools; Steeves can and has added some stronger puck management options to that line of chip and chasers. Steeves has maxed his development and just needs opportunity.
Click to expand...

Well, I think AN92's runway is just about gone, but however that may be it's hard to see how at this stage in his career he's going to learn to play NHL-worthy defense in the AHL. GT's idea is not bad: see if he can learn some Berube-habits on the 4th line during this window of opportunity.

To me Steeves is an AHLer. As regulars return my order of send-back would be Grebenkin (fun but really green), Steeves, Minten, Alex N.
 
I have to give this much to Steeves. He came up as the leading scorer on the Marlies and has been among the Marlies ppg leaders for four AHL seasons. In previous training camps, he made an impression on me. This season, he gets a crack at the 4th line and does a chameleon - starts hitting everything that moves, hustling and tenaciously fighting every puck battle he can for that 4th line role. If Alex Nylander wants to hang around, he cannot play the eggs-in-my-pocket style of game William plays because he's not going to score 40 NHL goals nor, like Steeves, get the opportunity to do so any time soon - if ever. Alex Nylander has better hands, better skating, better shot - more talent and skill. But Buffalo, Chicago, Pittsburgh and Columbus failed to convince him to play two ways. It's a little early to make the call but I can't dismiss Steeves effort vs Alex Nylander's one game just yet.

I'm pulling for Alex Nylander in part because as wonderful as it was for his brother and family for him to get called up, it will be tough for all of them if he gets waived. It would be a bit tragic because he has all the physical tools - more skills than a number of NHLers. It is what he decides to do between his ears and in his heart that will decide the issue. If he makes the effort, like Robertson, Berube will give him more rope.

The callups in general have done a decent job so far. Inevitably, there are going to be some tough decisions as players return from the IR.
 
Guilt Trip said:
I think A. Nylander could be a 4th line guy. He's got the size.
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He plays softer than Pierre Engvall, so, I don't see it happening even with size. Like, Robertson plays heavier than Alex.

Alex's path to success is a 3rd line winger who needs to keep his feet moving, strip the occasional puck on the backcheck, and find quiet ice to rip wristers into the net. And he'll need a playmaking defensive centre and a forechecking LW. On paper, Grebyonkin-Minten-Nylander is the right mix.
 
ZBBM said:
To me Steeves is an AHLer. As regulars return my order of send-back would be Grebenkin (fun but really green), Steeves, Minten, Alex N.
Click to expand...
Steeves stays up as long as you need someone to play a 4th line role. He's been pretty decent at that, and as cw notes his commitment to playing a more physical game this time around hasn't gone unnoticed.

Minten goes down probably the second Matthews and Domi return, or maybe even just one of them. It'd be awesome to see him just take the 3rd line role and never let it go but it's still almost certainly just too early for that and the Leafs will be wary about trying to force it again.

Grebenkin and Nylander are the two who have a legit shot at sticking around, if their performance warrants its of course. Grebenkin's only 21 but has 2 years of KHL experience under his belt including of course a championship so he's a fairly bit more seasoned than say Minten. Nylander is of course well past requiring AHL time. The 3rd line hasn't really clicked at any point in this season so if Grebenkin with his energy or Nylander with his shot can make a difference there then it'll be tough to send both of them down considering nothing else has really worked.
 
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