AA leaving?

[dappleganger]

I don't think a Toronto sports executive has been hated this much upon accepting a job offer before. All this hatred before a single game has been played under his watch. I really hope the Jays get off to a good start next year so this subsides somewhat.

 

[Kin]

That's good. Rogers wants you to hate him so they don't have to face the blame for what was their decision, not his. He's just a mouthpiece in this case.

Yup. Every single fan who's mad at Shapiro is just making his case for why he was the guy Rogers wanted to hire.

 

[L K]

One thing that probably hasn't been commented on enough might be the role of Beeston in this whole affair.  By all accounts the front office organization/structure is a bit of a disaster because Beeston was living in the stone age.  Beeston was also the guy who kept making statements about "money comes when the fans come" and "grass is coming". 

If anything Beeston was like a compulsive liar to the fanbase.  The guy was living off some excellent work done back in the 80s almost 30 years later.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Might as well promise them Mike Trout if the fan base just wants to hear nice things, not realistic things.

 

[Kin]

One thing that probably hasn't been commented on enough might be the role of Beeston in this whole affair.  By all accounts the front office organization/structure is a bit of a disaster because Beeston was living in the stone age.  Beeston was also the guy who kept making statements about "money comes when the fans come" and "grass is coming". 

If anything Beeston was like a compulsive liar to the fanbase.  The guy was living off some excellent work done back in the 80s almost 30 years later.

I think there's probably something to the idea that Beeston was instrumental in getting Rogers on board with the huge payroll incease over the last five years. He probably sold them on the idea that they could pay off.

The problem with that is that he, and AA, underdelivered on the actual results to the point that even going from 80 to 130 million wasn't enough and the team only really began to show results when they put together a team that essentially had a 160-170 million dollar price tag.

I don't know how or why fans would have seen the jump in payroll from '09 to now and the relatively lackluster results they produced and thought "Yeah, this is probably something corporate ownership will be ok with forever" but, well, here we are.

 

[Joe S.]

I don't think a Toronto sports executive has been hated this much upon accepting a job offer before. All this hatred before a single game has been played under his watch. I really hope the Jays get off to a good start next year so this subsides somewhat.

Actually when jfj joined the leafs he was absolute ridiculed in the media.  Talk Radio specifically

 

[Captain Canuck]

AA has taken a front-office job with the L.A. Dodgers according to multiple media reports.

 

[Kin]

AA has taken a front-office job with the L.A. Dodgers according to multiple media reports.

Huh. I guess he was looking for an unlimited payroll.

 

[hockeyfan1]

If it's true that Anthopoulos is joining the  Dodgers front office, then this could explain his joining L. A.:

They could be spotted as a foursome at the winter meetings or general manager?s meetings....

...
Oakland A?s general manager Billy Beane and J.P. Ricciardi, then the GM of the Blue Jays, often met. Beane would bring his assistant GM Farhan Zaidi while Ricciardi brought his assistant GM Alex Anthopoulos from 2003-09.

Friendships and familiarities between Friedman and Zaidi made the Dodgers the obvious choice.

On staff at Chavez Ravine, the Dodgder have vice-president of baseball operations Josh Byrnes, nine years as GM with the Arizona Diamondbacks and San Diego Padres, Friedman GM with the Rays for 10 years and this is his second year with the Dodgers, former GM Ned Colletti, who spent 10 years running the Dodgers, Tommy LaSorda, who served as interim GM in 1998, Colletti?s assistant Ellen Harrigan used to be the GM of class-A St. Catharines when the Jays owned the New York Penn League team and Anthoupolos.

During the World Series there had been talk of basically a 1-for-1 switch of offices: Anthopoulos to the Dodgers and Byrnes to the Jays, as he has a Cleveland background too. But that was before Atkins was hired.


http://www.torontosun.com/2016/01/05/alex-anthopoulos-heading-to-dodgers-according-to-report

 

[cabber24]

What resonates with me is what AA said after the final game, that his kids go to school here and he was all in. I believed him, I still don't have a clue what happened. The only way I can interpret it is, is that Shapiro fired him. Offering him a position as a lame duck GM is the same as firing in my books. He was not going to be the GM going forward no matter what except in title if he accepted.

 

[Kin]

What resonates with me is what AA said after the final game, that his kids go to school here and he was all in. I believed him, I still don't have a clue what happened. The only way I can interpret it is, is that Shapiro fired him. Offering him a position as a lame duck GM is the same as firing in my books. He was not going to be the GM going forward no matter what except in title if he accepted.

AA probably could have stayed GM. He probably could have stayed GM with a fair amount of autonomy. He just couldn't continue with his "empty out the farm system and worry about team payroll later" strategy.

The end of that as the team's outlook had nothing to do with any decision Shapiro made, Shapiro being hired in the first place was a harbinger of that. If Rogers wanted to keep AA and let him do what he'd been doing, they would have gone in another direction with their presidency.

 

[L K]

What resonates with me is what AA said after the final game, that his kids go to school here and he was all in. I believed him, I still don't have a clue what happened. The only way I can interpret it is, is that Shapiro fired him. Offering him a position as a lame duck GM is the same as firing in my books. He was not going to be the GM going forward no matter what except in title if he accepted.

AA probably could have stayed GM. He probably could have stayed GM with a fair amount of autonomy. He just couldn't continue with his "empty out the farm system and worry about team payroll later" strategy.

The end of that as the team's outlook had nothing to do with any decision Shapiro made, Shapiro being hired in the first place was a harbinger of that. If Rogers wanted to keep AA and let him do what he'd been doing, they would have gone in another direction with their presidency.

Both sides share blame in the eventual departure.  I'm fine with them moving in a new direction.  I don't think I was super fond of AA prior to the start of the season and honestly for all the trades he made, he was really coming out 50/50 on those deals while giving up all of the farm.  It remains that I don't care for Shapiro's outward approach.  I think he's getting a little too much credit for strong drafting when in reality the Indians really haven't drafted well at all.  Where Shapiro has done a decent job is getting valuable players when he trades away players nearing free agency.  That certainly might come into play if this team isn't close to contention near the trade deadline.

His first round draft picks from 2001-2015 are pretty much consistently failures.  Jeremy Guthrie in 2002 and then Francisco Lindor in 2011 are really the only two players to make any sort of impact in the Majors.  That's not very impressive over a 14 year run.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

His first round draft picks from 2001-2015 are pretty much consistently failures.  Jeremy Guthrie in 2002 and then Francisco Lindor in 2011 are really the only two players to make any sort of impact in the Majors.  That's not very impressive over a 14 year run.

They're not 1st round picks but if you're discussing the draft record you're missing out on some very good players I think, perhaps most notably Chris Archer and to a lesser extent Jeremy Guthrie.  Their closer, Cody Allen, was a draft pick.  I know their 2009 and 2010 picks were pitchers who have had significant arm problems.  Chisenhall is a 3B turning into an excellent defensive RF.  As well, their picks from 2012 to present are still at varying levels of the minors working up.  Some of their starters from this past season were international FA signings.

I don't think they have a great track record there, but I'm not fully aware of what some of the reasons for that might be beyond Shapiro.

 

[L K]

His first round draft picks from 2001-2015 are pretty much consistently failures.  Jeremy Guthrie in 2002 and then Francisco Lindor in 2011 are really the only two players to make any sort of impact in the Majors.  That's not very impressive over a 14 year run.

They're not 1st round picks but if you're discussing the draft record you're missing out on some very good players I think, perhaps most notably Chris Archer and to a lesser extent Jeremy Guthrie.  Their closer, Cody Allen, was a draft pick.  I know their 2009 and 2010 picks were pitchers who have had significant arm problems.  Chisenhall is a 3B turning into an excellent defensive RF.  As well, their picks from 2012 to present are still at varying levels of the minors working up.  Some of their starters from this past season were international FA signings.

I don't think they have a great track record there, but I'm not fully aware of what some of the reasons for that might be beyond Shapiro.

I'm certainly not saying that Shapiro's teams can't draft, I just don't think it's nearly the strength that it is being made out to be.  He has done some nice things getting guys to buy into extensions right before taking off and he has gotten decent value when he has traded guys like Bartolo Colon (in a stupid deal where Montreal essentially overpaid massively because MLB was stupidly running the team that Loria intentionally destroyed) CC, and Jake Westbrook.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

His first round draft picks from 2001-2015 are pretty much consistently failures.  Jeremy Guthrie in 2002 and then Francisco Lindor in 2011 are really the only two players to make any sort of impact in the Majors.  That's not very impressive over a 14 year run.

They're not 1st round picks but if you're discussing the draft record you're missing out on some very good players I think, perhaps most notably Chris Archer and to a lesser extent Jeremy Guthrie.  Their closer, Cody Allen, was a draft pick.  I know their 2009 and 2010 picks were pitchers who have had significant arm problems.  Chisenhall is a 3B turning into an excellent defensive RF.  As well, their picks from 2012 to present are still at varying levels of the minors working up.  Some of their starters from this past season were international FA signings.

I don't think they have a great track record there, but I'm not fully aware of what some of the reasons for that might be beyond Shapiro.

I'm certainly not saying that Shapiro's teams can't draft, I just don't think it's nearly the strength that it is being made out to be.  He has done some nice things getting guys to buy into extensions right before taking off and he has gotten decent value when he has traded guys like Bartolo Colon (in a stupid deal where Montreal essentially overpaid massively because MLB was stupidly running the team that Loria intentionally destroyed) CC, and Jake Westbrook.

I think he's done a pretty good job in helping to assemble a Cleveland team made up pretty significantly of home-grown talent.  I'm curious to see how they fare in the next few seasons.