All quiet on the Leaf front. But why?
- Thread starter Scrif
- Start date
Bender said:
Selling to UFAs to sign with the Leafs isn't what I'd consider a priority. Once the Leafs have assembled a young core that can win on their own, they will become an attractive destination for UFAs that might be the missing piece, or an additional weapon.
Depending on UFAs to transform the leafs from a lottery pick team to a Cup contender is the fool's errand the team has been on since the lockout. Burke fell prone to this way of thinking in his first years as Leafs GM. It's more fun and ego gratifying to think you can outsmart everyone and fast-track success, but you almost always end up digging yourself a hole.
I hope Burke has figured this out by now, as far as the Leafs are concerned. I'd like to see Burke be given the freedom to build the Leafs for a shot at ultimate success. If asked (and nobody is, I know) I'd predict at least three more years of pain before signs of the tide turning start to show.
princedpw said:
If this happens Burke is gone and then we'll have the "new" vision from the replacement and that will be another 5 years++.
We'd better do all we can (but no Gardiner) to move up and I can still see Edm trading the pick. We get Gardiner's pal to sign and drop Komi and Army to the Marlies (if $$ are required) and use the money to try for Parise or someone else who'd actually help (and not Nash) although it's very unlikely though the best UFA's would come here. Luongo would almost guarantee the playoffs so I'm really torn. Don't forget that I think we have seen the new Leafs already with less goals scored and a far more defensive team. We're going to have to turn over another 5-8 players easily to even get close to what Carlyle wants. It'll certainly be another year of turmoil IMO.
skrackle said:
I didn't say to load up on free agents exclusively but IMO I do believe winning has a lot of intangible benefits. We'll get a good pick where we're sitting right now and I think we can start bringing up the kids and turning the roster over as we've finally filled up the cupboard. It doesn't have to be a tank for five more years plan. We've got a better prospect pool than we've ever had. I think a year or two of making the playoffs and competing will help the kids and also attract free agents.
You DO need free agents eventually, and to miss out on the 2014 crop because those FA's see a team that is too inexperienced to compete is a real detriment imo.
ZBBM
Active member
princedpw said:
This is not a criticism of your post, but I do want to point out that you can't do any significant long-range planning based on what might happen with UFAs 2 years or more out. Sure, you have to be aware of the general outlines of when contracts expire, but banking/betting on future UFAs (other than the immediate crop) can't form any part of a serious plan.
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
I agree that planning of the form "Player X is a UFA two years from now; We will grab him then and win the cup" is unlikely to be successful. It is always the case that over the course of the two years, a large number of such potential UFAs are signed. Having said that, this year and next (13 months from now) appear somewhat anomalous. This year, the UFA market seems historically weak. Next year, an unusually large percentage of the league remains without a deal. Clearly, this is because of the dynamics of the CBA expiring. I don't think it is irrational to wager that this year UFA shopping is likely to be difficult and expensive; next year, there is a chance it will be better. Of course, it is a gamble, but when it comes to player movement, most things are.
And I do agree with Moon -- it is necessary to buy some UFAs. I'm not against it. Buying UFAs can be an effective way to increase your talent pool -- even UFAs you buy and then trade later (like Beauchemin) help increase your team talent.
KW Sluggo said:
We started from a position in which JFJ had traded away a bunch of our first-round picks, we had no prospects, we lost all our top-end talent (Sundin, McCabe, Roberts, Newy, Mogilny) with no return, so yeah, it is going to take a bunch of years to recover from the massive system-wide talent deficit we found ourselves in. Wishing we were further ahead doesn't make it so.
Strangelove
New member
princedpw said:
How much longer is it going to be fashionable to blame JFJ for the current state of the Leafs? Burke hasn't exactly strockpiled legitimate talent himself, in case you haven't noticed. Either in the minors or on the big squad. Beyond a select few gems, the organization is more or less a mess. Arguably more so than when JFJ was canned.
BlueWhiteBlood
New member
Strangelove said:
A mess? I don't think so. Dudley didn't think so when he left, and he's one of the premier talent evaluators, no?
Strangelove said:
Only if you tell me how much longer it will be fashionable to blame the current GM when we don't have a Stanley Cup after just 2-3yrs of service? It takes leg work and time to build a champion. Burke has done a lot. Not everyone is a homerun but we have a ton more usable assets then we ever did with JFJ.
Strangelove
New member
jonlleafs said:
Who said anything about a Stanley Cup?
And saying we have usable assets is great, but I see absolutely no evidence of it. A few, maybe. But the idea that we have "a ton" (or even "a ton more") is pretty laughable. Being a very bad team doesn't automatically means that the future is bright, and in the Leafs' case, right now, it really isn't.
Strangelove
New member
BlueWhiteBlood said:
He was also employed by the Leafs until immediately before he made that claim. What else is he supposed to say?
Strangelove said:
This team wasn't a very bad team for about 1/2 to 2/3 of the season. At that point the goaltending fell apart and the player's confidence along with it. So, I don't agree with you that we have a very bad team. We have a team that needs to shore up goaltending. When we have goaltending (not even elite but above average), our defense will look like they learned how to play defense again.
BlueWhiteBlood
New member
Strangelove said:
You're right, I'm sure he just made that stuff up.
Strangelove
New member
BlueWhiteBlood said:
I didn't say he made it up. I said wasn't about to say anything else, so you're unlikely to gain any special insight by listening to him.
And anyway, what he said was something like "the Leafs are 3 really good players (including a goalie) away from being a contender." I can't think of many teams for which that wouldn't be true.