All quiet on the Leaf front. But why?

[rdowdall]

I've been a supporter of Burke's for the simple fact that I think this team is in a better place now than when he stepped in. That being said, year after year of not being in the playoffs is wearing on me and i'm sure many other Burke supporters.

I think that is hard to justify.  The big club has not had any sort of success since he has been here, so that is one strike against him.  People point to prospect pool as being improved, but that is also hard to quantify as a lot of times people point to prospects that were actually brought in under JFJ and Fletcher.  He may have drafted some good players, but there isn't any real proof that his drafting is going to yield valuable NHL'ers.  Also I think the lack of a real elite level prospect within the system is a detriment to the Leafs going forward.

Which is why I stated 'I think'...not 'Everyone Knows'.

Which is why I replied with "I think".

What 'you think' doesn't really apply to what 'I think'.

I see.  So they don't have counter arguments in your world?

Not really. Ask my wife.

There's a follow up to this that probably shouldn't be posted.

Probably not.

Well look at that, we agree on something.

 

[Mack674]

Burke still sucks.

 

[rdowdall]

Burke still sucks.

So at the risk of sounding like a complete loon, I disagree with this statement as well.  He hasn't been stellar.  I think that he is somewhere in the middle, but closer to failing than succeeding.  Unfortunately, when he took over the team, the Leafs needed someone who could be a whole lot better than that.

To sum up my feelings on Burke, he doesn't suck, but he isn't the GM that the Leafs needed after the JFJ firing/Fletcher caretaker era. 

 

[Mack674]

He hasn't done that bad of a job, but what really is starting to get on my nerves is he's always talking a big game and delivers nothing. Just shut up and do your job and stop ranting in the media about it. For instance, like I brought up earlier, dont stand up and make a declaration that you're going to shake the team right up and make a slew of deals and then sit on your hands for 2 months.

It's just getting old. He'd have served himself much better to just stay quiet. "Oh my teams are built from the net out and theyre full of testosterone and - "

Let me stop you there Burke. Not even going to touch that "rough and tumble" attitude that doesnt exist on this team so let's go back to the goaltending comment. From the net out huh? I guess that means we're still at square one then doesn't it?

 

[lamajama]

He hasn't done that bad of a job, but what really is starting to get on my nerves is he's always talking a big game and delivers nothing. Just shut up and do your job and stop ranting in the media about it. For instance, like I brought up earlier, dont stand up and make a declaration that you're going to shake the team right up and make a slew of deals and then sit on your hands for 2 months.

It's just getting old. He'd have served himself much better to just stay quiet. "Oh my teams are built from the net out and theyre full of testosterone and - "

Let me stop you there Burke. Not even going to touch that "rough and tumble" attitude that doesnt exist on this team so let's go back to the goaltending comment. From the net out huh? I guess that means we're still at square one then doesn't it?

x2. A lot of hot air and "implied" promises. I say "implied" because Burke will lawyerese anything that we fans try and pin him on.

Haven't a clue on what might have been done by this time but it seems most of the motivation to make moves/deals by the other GM's center around the trade deadline and July 1 area - 2 time periods Burke apparently
steps away from.

I'd certainly rather he not make a bad deal to make a deal but my lifetime interest in this team is certainly waning into apathy - the most dangerous of fan emotions. I'm already accepting Burke's firing next May and the entering of yet another 5 year plan because we are certainly not making the playoffs with this lineup.

 

[sickbeast]

Just think of how much better this team would be with Seguin, Rask, and the other players wasted in those bad trades.  We would have less problems in goal and more potential at the forward positions, two spots where we're weak right now.

That's two GMs messing up badly and seriously screwing up our team.

 

[bustaheims]

Just think of how much better this team would be with Seguin, Rask, and the other players wasted in those bad trades.  We would have less problems in goal and more potential at the forward positions, two spots where we're weak right now.

That's two GMs messing up badly and seriously screwing up our team.

There are way too many variables leading to way too many unknowns to say anything conclusive about where the team would be had they not made those deals.

 

[AvroArrow]

...and then sit on your hands for 2 months.

Why is it that people assume he's doing nothing if deals aren't being made.  FFS, it takes 2 (TWO) GM's to make a deal.  This isn't a video game where as long as the value is good, the deal happens.

For all we know, he's working his tail off trying to make moves to improve the club, but other teams aren't budging.

 

[maplesyrup]

...and then sit on your hands for 2 months.

Why is it that people assume he's doing nothing if deals aren't being made.  FFS, it takes 2 (TWO) GM's to make a deal.  This isn't a video game where as long as the value is good, the deal happens.

For all we know, he's working his tail off trying to make moves to improve the club, but other teams aren't budging.

... and, outside of the Nash deal, how many hands/fingers would I need to count the number of trades league-wide in the last 3/4 weeks?

 

[rdowdall]

...and then sit on your hands for 2 months.

Why is it that people assume he's doing nothing if deals aren't being made.  FFS, it takes 2 (TWO) GM's to make a deal.  This isn't a video game where as long as the value is good, the deal happens.

For all we know, he's working his tail off trying to make moves to improve the club, but other teams aren't budging.

I don't think people have a problem with the lack of deals.  It's a problem of saying that there are going to be deals, and then nothing happening.  If Burke had just said "We'll make a move if we can" and left it at that, I don't think people would be upset.  It's that he said that it there is a remote possibility that things stay the same before training camp opens.  There are two problems that I can think of with him saying this:

1.  By saying that stuff, he paints him self in to a corner and sets an expectation that he possibly can't meet.
2.  He said it about 2 weeks before CBA negotiations were about to start, which comes across as he either doesn't care about the ramifications of the CBA, which in my mind is a bit silly, or that he is going to use it as an excuse as to why things didn't get done.

I think Burke is his own worst enemy right now.  He draws a lot of spotlight to himself through his posturing.  He may need to just lay low for a bit, take some lumps, and let the dust settle.  After that then maybe he can focus on improving the Leafs.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

...and then sit on your hands for 2 months.

Why is it that people assume he's doing nothing if deals aren't being made.  FFS, it takes 2 (TWO) GM's to make a deal.  This isn't a video game where as long as the value is good, the deal happens.

For all we know, he's working his tail off trying to make moves to improve the club, but other teams aren't budging.

I don't think people have a problem with the lack of deals.  It's a problem of saying that there are going to be deals, and then nothing happening.  If Burke had just said "We'll make a move if we can" and left it at that, I don't think people would be upset.  It's that he said that it there is a remote possibility that things stay the same before training camp opens.  There are two problems that I can think of with him saying this:

1.  By saying that stuff, he paints him self in to a corner and sets an expectation that he possibly can't meet.
2.  He said it about 2 weeks before CBA negotiations were about to start, which comes across as he either doesn't care about the ramifications of the CBA, which in my mind is a bit silly, or that he is going to use it as an excuse as to why things didn't get done.

I think Burke is his own worst enemy right now.  He draws a lot of spotlight to himself through his posturing.  He may need to just lay low for a bit, take some lumps, and let the dust settle.  After that then maybe he can focus on improving the Leafs.

But it's not training camp yet, there's still tons of time for him to make changes to the roster so that things don't stay the same.  I'm guessing most teams wait until closer to training camp/the regular season to finalise their rosters, so what is the issue with what he said?  There's too many forwards for the spots as is, so there will have to be some changes to it out of necessity. 

He made those comments barely a month ago, and so he's been given less than a month before some people are all over him about not making moves.  Moves are made when they can be made.

 

[rdowdall]

...and then sit on your hands for 2 months.

Why is it that people assume he's doing nothing if deals aren't being made.  FFS, it takes 2 (TWO) GM's to make a deal.  This isn't a video game where as long as the value is good, the deal happens.

For all we know, he's working his tail off trying to make moves to improve the club, but other teams aren't budging.

I don't think people have a problem with the lack of deals.  It's a problem of saying that there are going to be deals, and then nothing happening.  If Burke had just said "We'll make a move if we can" and left it at that, I don't think people would be upset.  It's that he said that it there is a remote possibility that things stay the same before training camp opens.  There are two problems that I can think of with him saying this:

1.  By saying that stuff, he paints him self in to a corner and sets an expectation that he possibly can't meet.
2.  He said it about 2 weeks before CBA negotiations were about to start, which comes across as he either doesn't care about the ramifications of the CBA, which in my mind is a bit silly, or that he is going to use it as an excuse as to why things didn't get done.

I think Burke is his own worst enemy right now.  He draws a lot of spotlight to himself through his posturing.  He may need to just lay low for a bit, take some lumps, and let the dust settle.  After that then maybe he can focus on improving the Leafs.

But it's not training camp yet, there's still tons of time for him to make changes to the roster so that things don't stay the same.  I'm guessing most teams wait until closer to training camp/the regular season to finalise their rosters, so what is the issue with what he said?  There's too many forwards for the spots as is, so there will have to be some changes to it out of necessity. 

He made those comments barely a month ago, and so he's been given less than a month before some people are all over him about not making moves.  Moves are made when they can be made.

Just so everyone knows, I'm speaking in very general terms here for the sake of brevity. 

Right, and I think that's where the division lies. Those that are supporting Burke are giving him that time and trust that he is going to do what he has said and make some moves to hopefully improve this club.

Those that are negative towards Burke, feel that they have heard this sort of thing before, and feel that there has been little tangible improvement to date.

 

[Bullfrog]

I don't think people have a problem with the lack of deals.  It's a problem of saying that there are going to be deals, and then nothing happening.  If Burke had just said "We'll make a move if we can" and left it at that, I don't think people would be upset.  It's that he said that it there is a remote possibility that things stay the same before training camp opens.  There are two problems that I can think of with him saying this:

1.  By saying that stuff, he paints him self in to a corner and sets an expectation that he possibly can't meet.
2.  He said it about 2 weeks before CBA negotiations were about to start, which comes across as he either doesn't care about the ramifications of the CBA, which in my mind is a bit silly, or that he is going to use it as an excuse as to why things didn't get done.

I think Burke is his own worst enemy right now.  He draws a lot of spotlight to himself through his posturing.  He may need to just lay low for a bit, take some lumps, and let the dust settle.  After that then maybe he can focus on improving the Leafs.

I just don't understand how either statement could make people upset. Are people really hanging on to everyword he says as though by saying it, it'll happen.

Given the complexity in making a trade, I'm surprised that anyone thinks what Burke says publicly means anything.

 

[Zee]

Burke has his self imposed "Olympic trade freeze" in effect.  You don't want to ruin your player's vacations as they watch the Olympics.

 

[rdowdall]

I don't think people have a problem with the lack of deals.  It's a problem of saying that there are going to be deals, and then nothing happening.  If Burke had just said "We'll make a move if we can" and left it at that, I don't think people would be upset.  It's that he said that it there is a remote possibility that things stay the same before training camp opens.  There are two problems that I can think of with him saying this:

1.  By saying that stuff, he paints him self in to a corner and sets an expectation that he possibly can't meet.
2.  He said it about 2 weeks before CBA negotiations were about to start, which comes across as he either doesn't care about the ramifications of the CBA, which in my mind is a bit silly, or that he is going to use it as an excuse as to why things didn't get done.

I think Burke is his own worst enemy right now.  He draws a lot of spotlight to himself through his posturing.  He may need to just lay low for a bit, take some lumps, and let the dust settle.  After that then maybe he can focus on improving the Leafs.

I just don't understand how either statement could make people upset. Are people really hanging on to everyword he says as though by saying it, it'll happen.

Given the complexity in making a trade, I'm surprised that anyone thinks what Burke says publicly means anything.

I think when they compare Burke to other GM's in the league and even past Leaf GM's, this just seems to be a bit abnormal.  You don't hear guys like Holland or Lombardi make statements the way that Burke does.  People get that Burke is very brazen, however that is bound to rub people the wrong way, especially when there is a lack of tangible results.  His sound bites often work against him.

 

[Bender]

I don't think people have a problem with the lack of deals.  It's a problem of saying that there are going to be deals, and then nothing happening.  If Burke had just said "We'll make a move if we can" and left it at that, I don't think people would be upset.  It's that he said that it there is a remote possibility that things stay the same before training camp opens.  There are two problems that I can think of with him saying this:

1.  By saying that stuff, he paints him self in to a corner and sets an expectation that he possibly can't meet.
2.  He said it about 2 weeks before CBA negotiations were about to start, which comes across as he either doesn't care about the ramifications of the CBA, which in my mind is a bit silly, or that he is going to use it as an excuse as to why things didn't get done.

I think Burke is his own worst enemy right now.  He draws a lot of spotlight to himself through his posturing.  He may need to just lay low for a bit, take some lumps, and let the dust settle.  After that then maybe he can focus on improving the Leafs.

I just don't understand how either statement could make people upset. Are people really hanging on to everyword he says as though by saying it, it'll happen.

Given the complexity in making a trade, I'm surprised that anyone thinks what Burke says publicly means anything.

I think when they compare Burke to other GM's in the league and even past Leaf GM's, this just seems to be a bit abnormal.  You don't hear guys like Holland or Lombardi make statements the way that Burke does.  People get that Burke is very brazen, however that is bound to rub people the wrong way, especially when there is a lack of tangible results.  His sound bites often work against him.

I think his personality and "likeability" is completely irrelevant. It's the George Dubya effect: I want a President I can have a beer with!

 

[rdowdall]

I don't think people have a problem with the lack of deals.  It's a problem of saying that there are going to be deals, and then nothing happening.  If Burke had just said "We'll make a move if we can" and left it at that, I don't think people would be upset.  It's that he said that it there is a remote possibility that things stay the same before training camp opens.  There are two problems that I can think of with him saying this:

1.  By saying that stuff, he paints him self in to a corner and sets an expectation that he possibly can't meet.
2.  He said it about 2 weeks before CBA negotiations were about to start, which comes across as he either doesn't care about the ramifications of the CBA, which in my mind is a bit silly, or that he is going to use it as an excuse as to why things didn't get done.

I think Burke is his own worst enemy right now.  He draws a lot of spotlight to himself through his posturing.  He may need to just lay low for a bit, take some lumps, and let the dust settle.  After that then maybe he can focus on improving the Leafs.

I just don't understand how either statement could make people upset. Are people really hanging on to everyword he says as though by saying it, it'll happen.

Given the complexity in making a trade, I'm surprised that anyone thinks what Burke says publicly means anything.

I think when they compare Burke to other GM's in the league and even past Leaf GM's, this just seems to be a bit abnormal.  You don't hear guys like Holland or Lombardi make statements the way that Burke does.  People get that Burke is very brazen, however that is bound to rub people the wrong way, especially when there is a lack of tangible results.  His sound bites often work against him.

I think his personality and "likeability" is completely irrelevant. It's the George Dubya effect: I want a President I can have a beer with!

That's fine.  I think people tolerate a winner though.  If the Leafs had made the playoffs last year or the year before, then they wouldn't be all over Burke.  If there was some measure of progress that you could point to and indisputably say "look things are getting better", it would probably calm people down.  As it stands now, there are too many question marks and what if's to build a solid argument around. 

 

[Kin]

I don't think people have a problem with the lack of deals.  It's a problem of saying that there are going to be deals, and then nothing happening.  If Burke had just said "We'll make a move if we can" and left it at that, I don't think people would be upset.

I don't think that's it really. I think it's the fact that "I'm going to make my moves in the coming weeks" or "July 1st is our draft day" are things that Burke has said to deflect criticism already being leveled at him at his relative lack of activity. When Burke said that he was going to make moves and that there was only a very remote chance we'd go into camp with the roster as is it was in the context of being accused of relative inactivity during the free agency period and the draft when things did go down.

So it's easy to say "Hey, it takes two teams to deal. If the other teams don't want to deal right now what can Burke do" and ignore the connection to the earlier criticism because the whole point of that criticism is that the best time to make deals is during the draft and that initial week of free agency.

That rationale is something along the lines of a delinquent bill payer saying "First I was supposed to pay you a month ago and when I don't, all of a sudden you want me to pay you now? Which is it?"

 

[Brian Glennie]

Here is my problem with that line of thinking.  It's a whole lot better in part because the prospects that were drafted by the regiment before him have developed. Burke shouldn't get credit for that, and when you couple that with the poor showings of the big club, that drags down his overall performance as the Leafs GM to date.

Seriously? That's your argument? These are the players still in the system that were drafted by the Leafs before Burke took over - Kulemin, Gunnarsson, Reimer, Holzer, Frattin and Komarov. Every other prospect in the system was either drafted by or brought in by Burke. The only other player in the organization that wasn't acquired by Burke is Grabovski. So, in the entire organization, there are 7 players that Burke didn't draft or acquire. 8 if you count Andrew MacWilliam, though, I don't because he's unlikely to get a contract from the team. Also, I mean, should Burke no get credit for convincing Komarov to finally come to play in North America? Or for helping Frattin get back on track after he was almost booted off his NCAA team?

And the sure fire prospects that will absolutely be full time NHLers that are on the way that Burke has drafted/acquired through trade are who?  Kadri, Colbourne?  I'll give you Gardiner and Bozak, so we are at what, two?  Just so we are on the same page, that's less than 6, right?

Morgan Rielly will be, barring any catastrophic injury.

There wasn't anything clever about how Burke landed Rielly, though. He acquired this asset because he iced an absolute stinker of a team.

 

[Kin]

I just don't understand how either statement could make people upset. Are people really hanging on to everyword he says as though by saying it, it'll happen.

Given the complexity in making a trade, I'm surprised that anyone thinks what Burke says publicly means anything.

I really don't think it has much of anything to do with what he says. It's a dissatisfaction that's born out of problems with the team as a whole. The criticism is that Burke hasn't done anything significant to improve the team. When people are on him for that and he says "Just wait, I'm about to" and he doesn't the criticism doesn't really change, even if people vent it in different ways.