Armchair GM 2016-2017

[Coco-puffs]

Admittedly he did slip my mind. Boy it sure would be nice if we had a roster spot for him so we could see if he's the real deal before making a decision on JVR. Too bad that left side is crowded with such great playe... oh wait.

Subconciously I kind of think that the readiness/willingness to trade JVR comes from the fact that we're coming off a free agency year where pretty good LW's were readily available. Of the Leafs' major pieces, JVR strikes me as the one who you can peel off with some sort of confidence you can replace what he brings(at least in part) with cash when the team needs it.

That is an interesting take, although I'm not so sure many of us really want to spend money in free-agency on wingers.  At least not consciously. 

I think everyone sees JvR as the best asset we have that we are actually willing to trade.  We all want to see the defense improve (esp. the right side) and it doesn't seem like we have any prospects who could conceivably be in our Top 4 in the next couple of years.  We do however have some prospects on the wing who could do a reasonable job in his place- although I don't expect Leivo or Leipsic to produce at his rates- so he is expendable. 

As you said, if none of our prospects show they are capable enough, then yes, its more conceivable that some money in free agency will solve the problem.  At least, more conceivable than addressing our defense through the same manner.

 

[TBLeafer]

I assume they'd still have Corrado but Babcock doesn't seem that interested in giving him a shot so you'd have to question whether keeping him around makes sense unless he'd be getting a regular shift.

I'm inclined to think that Corrado is being kept around precisely for expansion insurance.  He did have a good camp.

 

[louisstamos]

I assume they'd still have Corrado but Babcock doesn't seem that interested in giving him a shot so you'd have to question whether keeping him around makes sense unless he'd be getting a regular shift.

I'm inclined to think that Corrado is being kept around precisely for expansion insurance.  He did have a good camp.

I mean - you have to think that both Polak and Hunwick are gone at the deadline and Corrado gets in permanently at that point, right?  He's just biding his time before then?

 

[Kin]

I'm inclined to think that Corrado is being kept around precisely for expansion insurance.  He did have a good camp.

I don't know if I see that. If you figure that, absent a trade, the Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev, Carrick group is fairly safe going forward then Corrado would only be along as a bottom pairing guy and if Babcock were inclined to use Corrado as a bottom pairing guy...well, I think you can see where I'm going with this.

 

[TBLeafer]

Subconciously I kind of think that the readiness/willingness to trade JVR comes from the fact that we're coming off a free agency year where pretty good LW's were readily available. Of the Leafs' major pieces, JVR strikes me as the one who you can peel off with some sort of confidence you can replace what he brings(at least in part) with cash when the team needs it.

That is an interesting take, although I'm not so sure many of us really want to spend money in free-agency on wingers.  At least not consciously. 

I think everyone sees JvR as the best asset we have that we are actually willing to trade.  We all want to see the defense improve (esp. the right side) and it doesn't seem like we have any prospects who could conceivably be in our Top 4 in the next couple of years.  We do however have some prospects on the wing who could do a reasonable job in his place- although I don't expect Leivo or Leipsic to produce at his rates- so he is expendable. 

As you said, if none of our prospects show they are capable enough, then yes, its more conceivable that some money in free agency will solve the problem.  At least, more conceivable than addressing our defense through the same manner.
[/quote]

Nice thinking, IMO.  Yeah the expansion is bound to shake loose a few half decent 3-4 pairing NHL D, a manner of which we both have and are developing.

A true 1-2 D, either young and developing, or in their prime will remain just as elusive as ever.  Much more so than a scoring left winger.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I don't think he's really been talked about too much yet, but I'd like to get the Shattenkirk ball rolling. I'd seriously pursue him on July 1st if he makes it there (which as long as St. Louis doesn't trade him prior to that he probably will). With Burns getting $8mil x 8 years I'd do 7x7 for Shattenkirk.

 

[Kin]

That is an interesting take, although I'm not so sure many of us really want to spend money in free-agency on wingers.  At least not consciously.

We might not want to now but I think there's going to be a time in the not too distant future where guys like Matthews-Marner-Nylander are locked up long term at reasonable rates where the team has money to spend. Being as significant improvements on the blueline or at C tend to just not be available on the UFA market(or are crazy expensive when they are) then signing wingers could very well be an area to look at.

Whether via signing or trade, pretty good wingers tend to be more available at decent prices and I think good teams have taken advantage of that to add those final puzzle pieces. Hossa with the Hawks, Gaborik in LA, Kessel in Pittsburgh and so on.

 

[TBLeafer]

I'm inclined to think that Corrado is being kept around precisely for expansion insurance.  He did have a good camp.

I don't know if I see that. If you figure that, absent a trade, the Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev, Carrick group is fairly safe going forward then Corrado would only be along as a bottom pairing guy and if Babcock were inclined to use Corrado as a bottom pairing guy...well, I think you can see where I'm going with this.

Either way, isn't it insurance for a bottom pairing D that we can freely expose, even with those you mentioned protected?

Especially if Polak is moved for a and no D came back.  He won't have had enough NHL games in this season to be desirable once exposed to Vegas. Which would mean no Leafs D going to Vegas and they Leafs avoid losing Corrado on waivers, so that next season, they basically still have all the D they want still in the system.

 

[TBLeafer]

I don't think he's really been talked about too much yet, but I'd like to get the Shattenkirk ball rolling. I'd seriously pursue him on July 1st if he makes it there (which as long as St. Louis doesn't trade him prior to that he probably will). With Burns getting $8mil x 8 years I'd do 7x7 for Shattenkirk.

Yeah Shattenkirk is the obvious discussion. I was just trying to be a little more "creative". 

 

[bustaheims]

I don't think he's really been talked about too much yet, but I'd like to get the Shattenkirk ball rolling. I'd seriously pursue him on July 1st if he makes it there (which as long as St. Louis doesn't trade him prior to that he probably will). With Burns getting $8mil x 8 years I'd do 7x7 for Shattenkirk.

Depending on how the trade deadline and draft play out, yeah, Shattenkirk should probably be the team's top UFA target this summer.

 

[Kin]

Either way, isn't it insurance for a bottom pairing D that we can freely expose, even with those you mentioned protected?

Especially if Polak is moved for a and no D came back.  He won't have had enough NHL games in this season to be desirable once exposed to Vegas. Which would mean no Leafs D going to Vegas and they Leafs avoid losing Corrado on waivers, so that next season, they basically still have all the D they want still in the system.

You've lost me. The Leafs can only protect 3 defensemen and right now that figures to be Rielly, Gardiner and Carrick. Keeping Corrado around doesn't mean they don't have to expose Marincin. If Vegas wants Marincin(or Polak or Hunwick if they're re-signed) though, exposing Corrado won't affect that.

 

[Frank E]

I don't think he's really been talked about too much yet, but I'd like to get the Shattenkirk ball rolling. I'd seriously pursue him on July 1st if he makes it there (which as long as St. Louis doesn't trade him prior to that he probably will). With Burns getting $8mil x 8 years I'd do 7x7 for Shattenkirk.

Depending on how the trade deadline and draft play out, yeah, Shattenkirk should probably be the team's top UFA target this summer.

Consistently 40+ points.  20-22mins a game.  A little low, but I guess with Pietrangelo/Bouwmeester/Parayko eating up a bunch too, it makes some sense.  I'll admit, I'm not sure how to read his fancier stats given the Blues' record over the past few years.

I like the idea though.

 

[TBLeafer]

You've lost me. The Leafs can only protect 3 defensemen and right now that figures to be Rielly, Gardiner and Carrick. Keeping Corrado around doesn't mean they don't have to expose Marincin. If Vegas wants Marincin(or Polak or Hunwick if they're re-signed) though, exposing Corrado won't affect that.

Okay, I'll circle back. All but 3D and an exempt Zaitsev will be exposed by the Leafs.  Hunwick and Polak don't qualify as expansion draft targets unless re-signed.

1) If the Leafs do land a top 2 D via trade, it will leave Carrick exposed as well as Marincin and Corrado, but I imagine Carrick would be the favoured expansion D target for Vegas, so Corrado is the insurance if Carrick is picked up in that scenario, because he would slot under Zaitsev, assuming Polak walks or is traded.

2) If the Leafs stand pat on D, Hunwick and Polak still become free agents, Carrick is protected and Marincin and Corrado are exposed. Vegas probably passes on Leafs D, Polak walks if he isn't traded at the deadline and Corrado is the insurance that fills in his bottom pairing RHD spot next season, now under Carrick.

How is Corrado not insurance?

During this season, keeping Corrado up on the roster is injury insurance.

 

[Kin]

How is Corrado not insurance?

I guess what I'm not really seeing there is this idea that Corrado would fill a need Babcock sees him as being suitable for because, if that were the case, I can't help but feel he'd occasionally play him now and sort of be interested in his development. I guess to me there's a disconnect between "This guy can really play for us next year" and "Enjoy the pressbox for a year".

It seems to me like if you were really worried about the bottom pairing next year you wouldn't really need insurance so much as a willingness to make the sort of minor deals that brought Hunwick, Corraddo, Polak, Marincin and Carrick to the Leafs in the first place.

 

[TBLeafer]

How is Corrado not insurance?

I guess what I'm not really seeing there is this idea that Corrado would fill a need Babcock sees him as being suitable for because, if that were the case, I can't help but feel he'd occasionally play him now and sort of be interested in his development. I guess to me there's a disconnect between "This guy can really play for us next year" and "Enjoy the pressbox for a year".

It seems to me like if you were really worried about the bottom pairing next year you wouldn't really need insurance so much as a willingness to make the sort of minor deals that brought Hunwick, Corraddo, Polak, Marincin and Carrick to the Leafs in the first place.

But he's still in the room and practising on the team. I just feel if they weren't mutually on the same page he'd have requested a trade like Holland or been waived by now. I certainly don't see it as ruining his career based on how long it can take a D to develop at the NHL level, anyway.

 

[Kin]

But he's still in the room and practising on the team. I just feel if they weren't mutually on the same page he'd have requested a trade like Holland or been waived by now. I certainly don't see it as ruining his career based on how long it can take a D to develop at the NHL level, anyway.

That length of time it takes for D to develop typically happens over a period of time when said defensemen are playing competitive hockey games. I don't think I'm going too far out on a limb to say that "playing hockey" is important to the development of hockey players.

 

[TBLeafer]

But he's still in the room and practising on the team. I just feel if they weren't mutually on the same page he'd have requested a trade like Holland or been waived by now. I certainly don't see it as ruining his career based on how long it can take a D to develop at the NHL level, anyway.

That length of time it takes for D to develop typically happens over a period of time when said defensemen are playing competitive hockey games. I don't think I'm going too far out on a limb to say that "playing hockey" is important to the development of hockey players.

Maybe he plays via hypnosis?  Keepin' that mental game strong!

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Coincidentally David Alter just posted a Corrado article on the Athletic moments ago:

This season, Corrado has been more vocal about his current situation. He hasn?t demanded a trade, but he has made it pretty clear he is unhappy that his season was limited to one game while all of the Leafs other seven defencemen have played at least 16 times.

?Everyone on our back end gets a chance to play except me,? Corrado said.  ?I?d love to play. I had a good camp. I put on ten pounds in the summer. I sacrificed a lot to earn a job here when there might not have been one for me. I?m sure Holly?s situation was similar in ways, but for me, it?s really frustrating right now.?

Corrado?s situation has made clear that there is a divide between management and the coaching staff.

?I talked to Lou and he?s been supportive with me,? Corrado said. ?He told me he likes me, and he wants me here. It does make me feel better about the situation, but at the end of the day, the coach is the one who makes the lineup and if the coach doesn?t like you, then you?re not going to play. And that?s where I?m at right now.?

https://theathletic.com/30064/2016/12/15/corrado-happy-for-holland-but-laments-living-in-no-mans-land/

 

[TBLeafer]

Coincidentally David Alter just posted a Corrado article on the Athletic moments ago:

This season, Corrado has been more vocal about his current situation. He hasn?t demanded a trade, but he has made it pretty clear he is unhappy that his season was limited to one game while all of the Leafs other seven defencemen have played at least 16 times.

?Everyone on our back end gets a chance to play except me,? Corrado said.  ?I?d love to play. I had a good camp. I put on ten pounds in the summer. I sacrificed a lot to earn a job here when there might not have been one for me. I?m sure Holly?s situation was similar in ways, but for me, it?s really frustrating right now.?

Corrado?s situation has made clear that there is a divide between management and the coaching staff.

?I talked to Lou and he?s been supportive with me,? Corrado said. ?He told me he likes me, and he wants me here. It does make me feel better about the situation, but at the end of the day, the coach is the one who makes the lineup and if the coach doesn?t like you, then you?re not going to play. And that?s where I?m at right now.?

https://theathletic.com/30064/2016/12/15/corrado-happy-for-holland-but-laments-living-in-no-mans-land/

I don't think we should ready the pitchforks outside Babs office just yet...

Sorry about your luck Corrado. Be ready when your time comes.

 

[Zee]

Babcock really is stubborn to a fault. It makes no sense that he hasn't gotten more than 1 chance considering all the issues the Leafs have had (and continue to have) on defense.  It appears Babcock really doesn't like him for whatever reason.