Armchair GM 2016-2017
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Frank E said:
The league has been very open about wanting to give Vegas every opportunity to start their franchise on a positive note. That's why they've added all those new stipulations to the expansion draft, to try to ensure that actual NHLers are getting picked. Granted, it's not going to work and the team will still be awful right out the gate, but they want to give future $500mil investors a sign that they're actually investing in something that might be good.
bustaheims
Active member
Nik the Trik said:
Not really going to be any opportunity to scout, as the lists won't be finalized until after the Finals. As for discussions, as noted above, for the most part, they have a pretty solid idea of what's going to be available to them. An extra few days isn't going to improve things much in that regard.
Kin
New member
bustaheims said:
Won't be able to scout in-person, no, but they will be able to watch tape and a "pretty solid" idea is one thing but having the actual list and being able to put together a real strategy in terms of potential team building seems like the kind of thing that should be done with at least some prep time.
Coco-puffs
New member
bustaheims said:
I agree that VGK have done all the scouting they need prior to the lists being given to them, and, have a pretty good idea who will be available. The longer window won't really buy them much.
The point of the longer window is to allow Vegas to work out deals with other teams for players available. If I was McPhee that extra 24 hours might be very handy as you'll have lots of teams calling offering stuff for players on the expansion list. If I was McPhee, I'd maximize the number of defensemen I pick (and there will be some good ones available) and start trading some of them for more- since they come at a premium on the trade market. Knowing what you can get back for some of these players will go a long way to help decide who else to pick from other teams.
Anyways, I do hope this expansion draft does cause a huge ripple effect of trades and not just a simple draft of players from teams. It could get really exciting for fans to see it all happen.
Kin
New member
Coco-puffs said:
If I'm McPhee I'd be very careful about trading some of the better players available to him as part of the expansion draft if the return is draft picks who won't materialize for 4-5 years. I think part of the reason the Expansion draft is shaped the way it is is because the NHL sees the follies of going into a new market, one that's very sketchy as a hockey market and may very well have to compete with the NFL, and being absolute garbage for 4-5 years.
He's not going to be able to put together a good team immediately but if he's not looking at the expansion draft primarily as a way to take players who'll actually play minutes for him then I think he'll have badly misjudged the market he's in.
bustaheims
Active member
Nik the Trik said:
Even in terms of tape, there's nothing that's stopping them from having watched and analyzed game film on all the players that have a possibility of being available. A few more days isn't going to really provide much more information there.
McPhee was interviewed around the All Star Game, and said he and his front office team had already been going a wide range of scenarios based on potential availability lists. It's probably fair to say that, barring any massive surprises, they'll have done more than enough prep by the time they get the official lists. At that point, the discussions will be which already developed strategy they'll choose to follow.
Honestly, outside of some extra time to negotiate trades, anything that can be accomplished in those extra few days can and should be in the process of being accomplished already - to the point that the benefit of those extra days is pretty minimal - and opens up more possibility of paralysis through analysis.
bustaheims
Active member
Coco-puffs said:
I'm actually not sure that's true. I've gone through the process using the tool at Cap Friendly, and, really, I'm not coming up with a significant number of players I see other teams really being excited about or aggressively pursuing. There's a small number of good 2nd pairing type defencemen, and a couple lower-end 2nd line type forwards, but, really, that's about it.
Kin
New member
bustaheims said:
No, not unless there are a couple of genuine surprises in terms of who gets made available. In which case I think you want to give them a fair amount of time to look at things that may have fallen outside some of the preparation they've done.
bustaheims said:
I'm not sure we disagree about any of the broad strokes of what Vegas will actually be doing, just on what's a reasonable amount of time for them to actually do it.
Giving them a week probably won't result in any massive improvement but the idea that it would cause active harm seems entirely unfounded. 7 days seems like a fair amount of time to move from hypothetical to "this is what's actually going to happen" planning.
herman
Well-known member
Is this where we offer JvR and Bozak to them as a set? Built in 1st line right there. Short term hits at great value, for the measly cost of draft picks that they won't be putting to immediate use anyway, which can also be recouped or spent from expansion draft deals.
Or a JvR for a defenseman deal using VGK as a bounce pass point where there wasn't a direct fit with the other team.
Or a JvR for a defenseman deal using VGK as a bounce pass point where there wasn't a direct fit with the other team.
herman
Well-known member
Nik the Trik said:
:'(
I had silly hopes they'd part with their 1st (or two) for pieces that could expedite their competitiveness. Nevada, like Florida, doesn't have that pesky state income tax, so they could potentially squeeze JvR in at a lower cap hit long term.
Okay new ideas.
This is probably crazy, so bust it down as required.
Assuming the Rangers bag Shattenkirk as expected:
JvR + Kapanen for Rick Nash + 1st (2018) + Sean Day
The Rangers' time is 2017-18 and they need to load up to make it through PIT and WSH (and maybe CBJ). They get a younger, less bulldozey but more productive Nash who grew up a huge NYR fan, cheap RW depth they're lacking, and free up about 3M more towards Shattenkirk's mega deal.
We get a deferred 1st + defensive prospect project with upside + veteran LW power forward on a short term to sell at the deadline.
Coco-puffs
New member
Nik the Trik said:
Obviously McPhee can't just pick a bunch of NHL players (even if they are middle or bottom of the lineup guys) and trade them away for draft picks.
1. He needs to get to the Cap Floor
2. He needs a team that isn't completely noncompetitive.
3. As much as draft picks are great currency for building a franchise, I don't see many teams giving up the ones VGK would want anyways- not for the players available in the expansion draft.
However, there are teams in the NHL today that are too close to the salary cap but don't want to lose players for nothing- so they will protect those players. I'm sure those teams would be willing to trade a higher-end player, especially if it helps them dump a bad salary in the process and recoup a middle of the lineup player.
This is entirely hypothetical and probably won't happen because the players I'm naming have NMC's and won't want to go to Vegas- But I'm just putting it together as an example because I haven't looked at each team's roster and cap commitments moving forward.
As herman pointed out- NYR may want to part with Rick Nash but you can be sure they won't let him go for nothing. I'm sure they'd love to also like to move on from Dan Girardi. Moving both of those players out and getting someone from the available expansion players would benefit both sides:
Vegas gets to the cap floor much easier- and get a bit of star power in Nash. Rangers move out salary to go after their UFA target Shattenkirk and still get a serviceable player back.
herman
Well-known member
Nik the Trik said:
I totally agree, personally, but this is where a GM/owner might be emotionally sold.
Semi-seriously, but not really:
We could, theoretically, point to how well they still produced without Kessel, and how well the rookie on their line is producing "thanks to them", and what exemplary leadership/dressing room influences they are. Instant 'star power' of an American Olympiad and semi-local star (Bozak/Denver?) for their team to put bums in seats and money in the coffers, but not so cost prohibitive or long term that they gum up a build. They'll be immediately better than whatever 1st rounders they land in the next two/three years.
Still, you're right. It'd take way more than that to pry away 1st rounders from an Expansion team.
bustaheims
Active member
Bullfrog said:
Same. Unless they're getting prospects/young players of a roughly equivalent expected talent level, their 1st and 2nd round picks are basically off the table. Mid and late round picks might be a different story, but, they're also less interesting acquisitions.
Kin
New member
herman said:
"Sure, Tyler Bozak might not seem like such a big deal but remember, he played his college hockey 750 miles away in a different state. Think of the tickets he'll sell!"
The excitement of being able to see someone who went to university a mere 11 hour drive away aside, expansion teams typically don't have to worry too much about selling tickets right out of the gate. What gums them up is being bad for a protracted period of time. Trading away picks that are likely to be top 5 picks are what is most likely to do that.
I mean, if we can maybe come up with some sort of Lyle Lanley song for Shanahan to play at the GM meetings, sure:
Bozak! Bozak! Bozak!
McPhee: He doesn't score a lot I see,
Shanahan: He's the best choice for your Captaincy
McPhee: But no one here knows who they are?
Shanahan: Pfft, Denver's really not that far!
McPhee: His advanced stats sure lack Pizazz
Shanhan: They're off the charts, just ask Dubas!
Shanahan: I swear Bozak's near pure perfection, and just for your first round selection, Bozak! Bozak! Bozaaaaaaaaaak!
Lamoriello: Bozak is, er, ah, real....d'oh.