Armchair GM 2018-2019

[herman]

Martin for Ho-Sang. Boom.

 

[Frank E]

Depends on the price for me. 2nd or 3rd rd pick? No brainer. If they take him for a cast off prospect (or freebie) like Nielsen/Marchment/Moore, easy peasy.

Scoring skill and automatic carry entries doesn't grow on trees.

Same. Not interested in giving up any of the better prospects for him. I'd even be leery about a 2nd round pick, as his numbers in the AHL and his brief NHL stints don't exactly jump out as impressive. But 3rd round pick or later? Absolutely.

I'm staying far away from this topic...so far away.

 

[Zee]

I'd pass. Has talent but too many question marks there.

Worth the risk if you can get him cheap.

Depends on the price for me. 2nd or 3rd rd pick? No brainer. If they take him for a cast off prospect (or freebie) like Nielsen/Marchment/Moore, easy peasy.

Scoring skill and automatic carry entries doesn't grow on trees.

Martin for Ho-Sang. Boom.

Ho-Sang definitely wouldn't fit into the new Isles culture with Lou as the helm.  Martin has proven to be a real gud Lou soldier.  I like this deal.

 

[PCB]

But would Ho-sang fit into the Leafs current culture?

 

[Zee]

But would Ho-sang fit into the Leafs current culture?

Kadri would take him under his wing.  He's learned in the school of hard knocks.

 

[herman]

But would Ho-sang fit into the Leafs current culture?

Young, highly skilled players (many from the GTA)? Shepherded by a quiet lead-by-example team dad, driven by a high pick yo-yo who previously had a run-in or two with the front office (for being late to practice) and is also a player of colour from one of the most multi-cultural neighbourhoods in the NHL? All steered by a coach with an even bigger ego with the credentials and work-ethic to back it up?

I kind of want to see that here.

 

[bustaheims]

But would Ho-sang fit into the Leafs current culture?

Young, highly skilled players (many from the GTA)? Shepherded by a quiet lead-by-example team dad, driven by a high pick yo-yo who previously had a run-in or two with the front office (for being late to practice) and is also a player of colour from one of the most multi-cultural neighbourhoods in the NHL? All steered by a coach with an even bigger ego with the credentials and work-ethic to back it up?

I kind of want to see that here.

Also, the whole "culture is over-rated" thing that leads us to poke fun at Lou's rules and such.

 

[herman]

Also, the whole "culture is over-rated" thing that leads us to poke fun at Lou's rules and such.

A lot of it is silly, but there were a few things I appreciated from Lou, especially coming from the way things were going before: baseline stability, unified messaging. I think they're in a much better shape to add players without their perceived personalities tipping anything over.

 

[Kin]

Or, to move this away from the over-used and often coded concept of "culture", even the more innocuous hypothetical of whether or not Ho-sang is the worst version of what he's been painted as seems to not be a big deal.

If he bristles at constructive coaching or sleeps in or parties or whatever then I genuinely think that it's not an issue if the team you already have has a good make-up and is well-coached. Either that group works to rehabilitate someone or they isolate them and don't let the bad habits spread. The downside ultimately being no more than just a risk not paying off.

 

[Kin]

A lot of it is silly, but there were a few things I appreciated from Lou, especially coming from the way things were going before: baseline stability, unified messaging. I think they're in a much better shape to add players without their perceived personalities tipping anything over.

What are some examples of disparate messaging from previous GMs?

 

[herman]

What are some examples of disparate messaging from previous GMs?

Rampant trade rumours (clearly originating from the front office), publicly airing out disagreements between players and coaches (which are normal), a bit of throwing each other under the bus (Burke/Wilson), all on top of having a bad on-ice product.

I didn't like losing direct access to people like Dubas and Hunter and the assistant coaches because I enjoy the tactical and managerial side of the game, but I am okay with them clamping things down for this period of time after what came before.

 

[Kin]

Rampant trade rumours (clearly originating from the front office), publicly airing out disagreements between players and coaches (which are normal), a bit of throwing each other under the bus (Burke/Wilson), all on top of having a bad on-ice product.

I can see why someone might choose to not like some of those things(trade rumours though?) and how they might imply a discordant front office but I suppose I never really saw that as mixed messaging. If anything, I always thought Burke was very straightforward and certain in his policies, even if they were the wrong ones.

 

[herman]

I can see why someone might choose to not like some of those things(trade rumours though?) and how they might imply a discordant front office but I suppose I never really saw that as mixed messaging. If anything, I always thought Burke was very straightforward and certain in his policies, even if they were the wrong ones.

Mixed messaging might just be me phrasing my idea incorrectly. Maybe 'messy' is the better term.

 

[Kin]

I can see why someone might choose to not like some of those things(trade rumours though?) and how they might imply a discordant front office but I suppose I never really saw that as mixed messaging. If anything, I always thought Burke was very straightforward and certain in his policies, even if they were the wrong ones.

Mixed messaging might just be me phrasing my idea incorrectly. Maybe 'messy' is the better term.

Maybe, but I'm not sure how you could completely separate that from the larger issue with the team and it's direction. Things were messy with Burke because things weren't going well. Likewise, I think things currently would be a bit messier if the Leafs had drafted Puljujarvi instead of Matthews.

I get the idea that, you know, if you're working in an office and your last boss was a disorganized mess that when a new hire starts coming up with rules about what angle your pen should be at if you leave it on a desk it can give the impression of an attention to detail or whatever but it's still fundamentally crazy.

 

[Zee]

What the hell is Shanahan waiting for? Are we getting a GM announced this week?

 

[bustaheims]

What the hell is Shanahan waiting for? Are we getting a GM announced this week?

Probably not, no. Honestly, don't expect anything until much closer to the draft.

 

[Kin]

What the hell is Shanahan waiting for? Are we getting a GM announced this week?

For all the GMing that needs doing?

 

[Zee]

What the hell is Shanahan waiting for? Are we getting a GM announced this week?

Probably not, no. Honestly, don't expect anything until much closer to the draft.

What the hell is Shanahan waiting for? Are we getting a GM announced this week?

For all the GMing that needs doing?

I think there's a lot that has to be done before the draft especially in sorting out the roles and the fallout coming from the decision of who becomes GM.  If the rumors are true and Hunter looks to leave if Dubas gets the job (or vice versa), then a succession plan will have to be put in place to replace one of those 2 as assistant GM (and GM of the Marlies).

Even though playoffs are ongoing, I believe other teams can still talk to each other about frameworks for trades going forward, you'd probably want to start discussions earlier on that, like way before the draft if you're thinking of making any deals during the draft weekend.  If other GMs have no idea who the Leafs GM is, they don't know who they should be talking to, and nothing will move forward.  It's always best to have your power structure well defined well ahead of any important dates.  I know that Shanahan is the top of the power chain, but unless he's carrying out the GM duties currently, things will slip.

 

[Kin]

I think there's a lot that has to be done before the draft especially in sorting out the roles and the fallout coming from the decision of who becomes GM.  If the rumors are true and Hunter looks to leave if Dubas gets the job (or vice versa), then a succession plan will have to be put in place to replace one of those 2 as assistant GM (and GM of the Marlies).

Both of those plans can be set up as contingencies for if and when they need to be actually implemented.

Even though playoffs are ongoing, I believe other teams can still talk to each other about frameworks for trades going forward, you'd probably want to start discussions earlier on that, like way before the draft if you're thinking of making any deals during the draft weekend.

I doubt there's much in the way of specific talk going on while hockey is still being played. Especially as lots of teams are conducting their own internal reviews/hiring processes. I don't think trades are such complicated beasts that you need a month's lead time to get them done pre-draft.

If other GMs have no idea who the Leafs GM is, they don't know who they should be talking to, and nothing will move forward. 

That seems like a beyond easy problem to solve. Preliminary discussions can go through Shanahan just like they'd have gone through Lamoriello before. All throughout Lamoriello's tenure we heard how much of what went on was a collaborative process. That still goes on just without Hunter or Dubas in the role of final decision maker because there aren't final decisions to be made.

 

[Frank E]

I think there's a lot that has to be done before the draft especially in sorting out the roles and the fallout coming from the decision of who becomes GM.  If the rumors are true and Hunter looks to leave if Dubas gets the job (or vice versa), then a succession plan will have to be put in place to replace one of those 2 as assistant GM (and GM of the Marlies).

Both of those plans can be set up as contingencies for if and when they need to be actually implemented.

Even though playoffs are ongoing, I believe other teams can still talk to each other about frameworks for trades going forward, you'd probably want to start discussions earlier on that, like way before the draft if you're thinking of making any deals during the draft weekend.

I doubt there's much in the way of specific talk going on while hockey is still being played. Especially as lots of teams are conducting their own internal reviews/hiring processes. I don't think trades are such complicated beasts that you need a month's lead time to get them done pre-draft.

If other GMs have no idea who the Leafs GM is, they don't know who they should be talking to, and nothing will move forward. 

That seems like a beyond easy problem to solve. Preliminary discussions can go through Shanahan just like they'd have gone through Lamoriello before. All throughout Lamoriello's tenure we heard how much of what went on was a collaborative process. That still goes on just without Hunter or Dubas in the role of final decision maker because there aren't final decisions to be made.

I'm not convinced that there isn't a fair bit of General Managing to do.  The draft is only a week before July 1st...I would imagine that there would have to be a plan on who they're letting walk, and who they're going to try and sign to fill some of the bigger holes.  I'd figure a guy taking over that role would want, at least, a discussion on whether or not Bozak and JVR get deals.

Nylander is also a guy that needs a deal, and I can't imagine that would be something they want to drag out.

I don't for a second believe that there aren't discussions going on between teams, even if things don't get finalized until after the Cup is handed over.

The incoming GM has some decisions to make on the defense situation, I hope.  And if this is the case, it'd be nice if he had a feel for what the market is like for some of his players before he has to decide on what to do July 1st...and given that, teams get to speak with these guys a week beforehand, right?  So you'd need to decide on who you want to get in line with likely before the draft.