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Avalanche @ Leafs - Oct. 8th, 7:00pm - TSN, SN 590

L K said:
Sometimes Randy Carlyle is a really bad coach.  The Leafs got outplayed again tonight and looked pretty bad in the 3rd period once they went down a goal.  Bad lines and heaven forbid Bozak ever be taken off the 1st line.
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Agreed and my goodness, Ranger is just useless. I'm sorry but I just can't handle watching this guy anymore. I'm not saying that others on D aren't playing up to par but this guy is just brutal. I miss Liles.

And oh yeah, but what a very boring game. Works for the Avs but gosh, I don't think I could handle watching that all year.
 
Ranger isn't as bad as being said.  Has he been good? No, he's had some high-profile miscues, but you can see him getting better each game.  His passing is crisper, his movement with the puck is better, he's been physical, he's shown he can rush the puck.  If he was playing on the 1st pairing maybe he would be brutal for that particular pairing, but as a bottom-4 defenseman I think he's coming along fine.  I suspect it will get less and less as we go.
 
Potvin29 said:
Ranger isn't as bad as being said.  Has he been good? No, he's had some high-profile miscues, but you can see him getting better each game.  His passing is crisper, his movement with the puck is better, he's been physical, he's shown he can rush the puck.  If he was playing on the 1st pairing maybe he would be brutal for that particular pairing, but as a bottom-4 defenseman I think he's coming along fine.  I suspect it will get less and less as we go.
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I do agree with this.  However given that Carlyle likes to crap on Gardiner/Kadri about defensive accountability he should be getting 6th TOI and not rewarded with PP time and last minute shifts.  That's my big issue with Carlyle he talks a big game about accountability but is very selective in who gets held to that standard.
 
Potvin29 said:
Ranger isn't as bad as being said.  Has he been good? No, he's had some high-profile miscues, but you can see him getting better each game.  His passing is crisper, his movement with the puck is better, he's been physical, he's shown he can rush the puck.  If he was playing on the 1st pairing maybe he would be brutal for that particular pairing, but as a bottom-4 defenseman I think he's coming along fine.  I suspect it will get less and less as we go.
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I agree.  He's made some mistakes, but he's also made some very nice plays.  Last night he blocked a pass that was a tap in.  I think he's going to be just fine.
 
L K said:
Potvin29 said:
Ranger isn't as bad as being said.  Has he been good? No, he's had some high-profile miscues, but you can see him getting better each game.  His passing is crisper, his movement with the puck is better, he's been physical, he's shown he can rush the puck.  If he was playing on the 1st pairing maybe he would be brutal for that particular pairing, but as a bottom-4 defenseman I think he's coming along fine.  I suspect it will get less and less as we go.
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I do agree with this.  However given that Carlyle likes to crap on Gardiner/Kadri about defensive accountability he should be getting 6th TOI and not rewarded with PP time and last minute shifts.  That's my big issue with Carlyle he talks a big game about accountability but is very selective in who gets held to that standard.
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Oh definitely.  He seems to pick on one or two players each year to put in his "doghouse," which I'm sure in his eyes is done for the betterment of the player down the road but which I'm sure fosters resentment among some of them.
 
I think one thing for perspective with Ranger is that he was more of a second pairing D-man on Tampa when he left and they were not a defensive force.  He had room to grow when he stepped away from the gam but he probably peaks at a #4 guy when all is said and done.  I'm good with that and it will take time to get there.

If he ends up somewhere around  Kubina-ish performance in the long run, that is pretty solid.
 
The Avalanche deserve full credit for this win. They played a tight checking game and hemmed the Leafs out, preventing scoring chances. This was a good test for the Leafs, and while they didn't win, they played a better defensive game, and Bernier didn't disappoint once again. BTW Rielly keeps looks better and better and better....
 
L K said:
Potvin29 said:
Ranger isn't as bad as being said.  Has he been good? No, he's had some high-profile miscues, but you can see him getting better each game.  His passing is crisper, his movement with the puck is better, he's been physical, he's shown he can rush the puck.  If he was playing on the 1st pairing maybe he would be brutal for that particular pairing, but as a bottom-4 defenseman I think he's coming along fine.  I suspect it will get less and less as we go.
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I do agree with this.  However given that Carlyle likes to crap on Gardiner/Kadri about defensive accountability he should be getting 6th TOI and not rewarded with PP time and last minute shifts.  That's my big issue with Carlyle he talks a big game about accountability but is very selective in who gets held to that standard.
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Expectations for Ranger coming in were way too high. And the Leafs brass probably deserves some blame for that for using the phrase "top-4 defenceman" to describe Ranger in any way (even in a future tense). And like you said, his ice-time isn't being managed properly. Randy said before the season started that he would ease Ranger into the line-up, and that hasn't happened. He's getting about the exact same amount of even-strength ice-time as Gunnarsson/Gardiner/Rielly are.

Carlyle was very good last season at shielding the Fraser-Franson pairing, and the Gardiner-Ranger pairing should be getting that treatment this season. I don't know why he's essentially just running 3 pairings evenly right now.
 
Bullfrog said:
No doubt, not having Kulemin, McClement, and Clarkson didn't help, but overall, I thought it was our defensemen that were the biggest problem (besides the coach, that is.) They were constantly crossing over each other and chasing the puck like it was a peewee game.

On a positive note: Rielly's good enough to stay in my opinion. Ya, he's going to make a tonne of mistakes, but his offense and skating are ridiculous.

However, why he was given the green light to attack and Kadri has "to earn his way" is beyond me. I felt so bad watching Kadri play with Orr and Ashton. Give Kadri some real wingers and give him a chance to succeed.
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Rielly will be given the green light until he screws up. Kadri needs to learn how to be responsible on the ice. That doesn't just mean knowing where to be and how to play defence. He needs to learn the difference between when it's ok to be creative and when he needs to make the safe play. Kadri screws up a lot. If you're going to be giving serious ice time to a player, you need to know that you can depend on him. Kadri is not a veteran yet. He hasn't earned any mulligans. 
 
L K said:
Potvin29 said:
Ranger isn't as bad as being said.  Has he been good? No, he's had some high-profile miscues, but you can see him getting better each game.  His passing is crisper, his movement with the puck is better, he's been physical, he's shown he can rush the puck.  If he was playing on the 1st pairing maybe he would be brutal for that particular pairing, but as a bottom-4 defenseman I think he's coming along fine.  I suspect it will get less and less as we go.
Click to expand...

I do agree with this.  However given that Carlyle likes to crap on Gardiner/Kadri about defensive accountability he should be getting 6th TOI and not rewarded with PP time and last minute shifts.  That's my big issue with Carlyle he talks a big game about accountability but is very selective in who gets held to that standard.
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Perhaps Ranger responds more professionally to critiques of his play than Gardiner and Kadri do?
 
pmrules said:
Brutal giveaway by Orr on the eventual gwg.  Caught the defenseman off guard.

That's 1 game that Orr has cost us.

I'm pretty sure it had nothing too with it, but the fight seemed to turn the avs fortunes around.
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IMO I call BS, blame Orr for the give away yes. I blame Ranger and Jake, they were aweful all night long, forget that all season so far.
 
freer said:
pmrules said:
Brutal giveaway by Orr on the eventual gwg.  Caught the defenseman off guard.

That's 1 game that Orr has cost us.

I'm pretty sure it had nothing too with it, but the fight seemed to turn the avs fortunes around.
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IMO I call BS, blame Orr for the give away yes. I blame Ranger and Jake, they were aweful all night long, forget that all season so far.
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Ranger I can understand but I'm not sure what else Gardiner could have done there. He was pretty much hung out to dry by every other Leafs skater on the ice. The forwards turned the puck over and the immediately went for a change. Ranger got beat by the Avs forward which caused a 2-on-1 and then coasted towards the net until the puck went in. Gardiner played the 2-on-1 pretty well positionally. McGinn couldn't get a shot off and Parenteau couldn't receive a pass for a one-timer. It was just a fluke that the puck went off the Avs players skate.
 
Bender said:
Zee said:
I didn't see the game but I heard Rielly was good.  Thoughts on this?
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Good rushes up and down the ice, started to turn on the jets. Good possession game.
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IMO
The game was not a good one for anyone except for Bernier. I thought that the coach played the wrong players for this game. Orr should not play against any line other then the other teams fourth line. Smith was not a factor playing on the fourth line. Reilly did have some good rushes late in the third period but at that time it was too late for the leafs as they were already down. IMO the team needs to shot the puck more, and please hit the net. We must of missed three or four open nets 
 
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