Blues @ Leafs - Oct. 7th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590

[hockeyfan1]

The first period was basically a goaltending duel between Toronto-native Jordan Binnington and Andersen.  They both kept their teams in the game.

We should be proud of the way the Leafs made the defending Stanley Cup champion Blues work for every little scrap of ice. 
Between hitting posts and coming so close to scoring (for both teams), it had to come down to Pietrangelo?s goal.  Ah, well...

The captain said it best:

?They obviously did it last year and have shown they know how to win. They're a patient team, and I think overall we did a pretty good job ourselves. We just didn't make enough plays in the third and they had the one that resulted in the victory for them."

 

[Zee]

Yeah they played well, I can't complain too much about that game last night. If they play with that kind of effort on most nights they'll win a ton of games.

 

[Highlander]

Best game the Leafs have ever lost.

 

[Strangelove]

The media turning on Kapanen and lauding the importance of Hymen - a fringe top 9 winger - is frankly kind of ridiculous.

The reality is that the line isn't playing too well. That includes our two $11 million dollar players, who look sloooow. if they need Hymen to be effective then the team has bigger problems.

 

[herman]

Hey man, it?s spelled Hyman

He?s also pretty clearly a top-6 3rd banana

 

[Bullfrog]

Did somebody say banana?

 

[ZBBM]

Did somebody say banana?

You are so beautiful, to me.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Hey man, it?s spelled Hyman

He?s also pretty clearly a top-6 3rd banana

Sorry but no he isn't. He's a bottom six guy that plays in the top 6. The media loves to pick a whipping boy and Kappy is the guy right now. Totally unfair if you ask me, and I know no one is. He actually played well last night. That 3rd goal was more on the D and Freddie. Overall the JT line has been terrible from what is expected and since the only change to the line is Kappy, it must be him. It's not just him having a slow start. JT and Marner have been giveaway machines and from this seat, are the worst line in their own end. How come no one talks about Johnsson who has 1 more point then Kappy. He's been underwhelming so far also, just that Matthews and Willy are playing great. Time for JT and Marner to get their 11 million dollar asses in gear at even strength.
Oh and I like Holl more the Marincin and Sandin played great last night.
It's early and I don't think Kappy has played himself off that line yet.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Is Zach Hyman a top-6 forward? That's a tricky question to answer. Player roles and definitions are changing. Here's what I do know though: for 3 straight seasons he's been a part of some of the best lines in hockey.

In 16/17 the Hyman-Matthews-Nylander line ranked 5th in the NHL in terms of expected goals for.

In 17/18 the Hyman-Matthews-Nylander line ranked 1st in the NHL in terms of expected goals for.

In 18/19 the Hyman-Tavares-Marner line ranked 1st in the NHL in terms of expected goals for.

Does Hyman deserve all of the credit for that level of success? No. Does he deserve most of the credit for that level of success? No. Does he even deserve an equal amount of credit among his linemates for that level of success? Again, I would say no. But he has a proven and consistent track record of success on elite level #1 lines. The guy has to be doing something right that can't quite be replicated by any random 3rd liner.

 

[disco]

That long stretch in the 2nd period with the teams zipping around back and forth was so fun to watch.

 

[herman]

Is Zach Hyman a top-6 forward? That's a tricky question to answer. Player roles and definitions are changing. Here's what I do know though: for 3 straight seasons he's been a part of some of the best lines in hockey.

In 16/17 the Hyman-Matthews-Nylander line ranked 5th in the NHL in terms of expected goals for.

In 17/18 the Hyman-Matthews-Nylander line ranked 1st in the NHL in terms of expected goals for.

In 18/19 the Hyman-Tavares-Marner line ranked 1st in the NHL in terms of expected goals for.

Does Hyman deserve all of the credit for that level of success? No. Does he deserve most of the credit for that level of success? No. Does he even deserve an equal amount of credit among his linemates for that level of success? Again, I would say no. But he has a proven and consistent track record of success on elite level #1 lines. The guy has to be doing something right that can't quite be replicated by any random 3rd liner.

Basically that last part... what's different about Hyman vs Rando 3rd/4th liner?

I think he's an expert at boxing out the play and making sure his linemates have the puck most of the time. Hockey coaches talk a lot about simplifying the game, cutting down the ice and space in defense, and I think Hyman basically does that on offense. His forecheck and positioning essentially shrinks the play down to his linemates get the puck and everyone else does not.

So Tavares/Marner, Matthews/Nylander get a boost in the number of puck touches and plays they get to make. They're spending less of their time fetching the puck (hard) and more of their ice time making plays (awesome). Hyman is an offense catalyst: he doesn't really take part in the offense other than reducing the energy requirement to score goals and make points.

Put him on a 3rd or 4th line and he's wasted making space for okay players. Put him on your top line with your most consistent playmakers and scorers and the puck goes into the net.

 

[Chris]

Is Zach Hyman a top-6 forward? That's a tricky question to answer. Player roles and definitions are changing. Here's what I do know though: for 3 straight seasons he's been a part of some of the best lines in hockey.

In 16/17 the Hyman-Matthews-Nylander line ranked 5th in the NHL in terms of expected goals for.

In 17/18 the Hyman-Matthews-Nylander line ranked 1st in the NHL in terms of expected goals for.

In 18/19 the Hyman-Tavares-Marner line ranked 1st in the NHL in terms of expected goals for.

Does Hyman deserve all of the credit for that level of success? No. Does he deserve most of the credit for that level of success? No. Does he even deserve an equal amount of credit among his linemates for that level of success? Again, I would say no. But he has a proven and consistent track record of success on elite level #1 lines. The guy has to be doing something right that can't quite be replicated by any random 3rd liner.

Basically that last part... what's different about Hyman vs Rando 3rd/4th liner?

I think he's an expert at boxing out the play and making sure his linemates have the puck most of the time. Hockey coaches talk a lot about simplifying the game, cutting down the ice and space in defense, and I think Hyman basically does that on offense. His forecheck and positioning essentially shrinks the play down to his linemates get the puck and everyone else does not.

So Tavares/Marner, Matthews/Nylander get a boost in the number of puck touches and plays they get to make. They're spending less of their time fetching the puck (hard) and more of their ice time making plays (awesome). Hyman is an offense catalyst: he doesn't really take part in the offense other than reducing the energy requirement to score goals and make points.

Put him on a 3rd or 4th line and he's wasted making space for okay players. Put him on your top line with your most consistent playmakers and scorers and the puck goes into the net.

I think that's a really good description of what Hyman does - he gets in fast and really knows how to use his body to block off defenders without getting penalties too often. He often occupies 2 defenders long enough to allow one of the other forwards to swoop in and get the puck. One might think Kappy could learn to do the same thing - he's even faster and uses his body well at times, but so far he hasn't figured it out. It seems like he thinks his role should be to be a puck carrier/play maker but he isn't really great at that. Maybe with time he'll become more effective, but I think when Hyman is back and healthy he'll be back in that spot.

Another nice thing Hyman brings is that he will drop the gloves if necessary (and he isn't terrible at fighting). I know people argue about the importance of that in the game today, but I think a team needs someone who will do that if needed.

 

[herman]

Re: Kapanen doing Hyman?s work
It?s not working on the left side for Kap because his game is speed around the outside, and basically that?s impossible on your backhand; he can?t shield the puck properly. Off-hand wingers really should be pure diggers or shooters, not carriers ? i.e. rarely play the puck; Kapanen loves to carry in straight lines. Tavares and Marner prefer a more snake-like approach, crossing up defenders and forcing switches and new reads to take advantage of.

He can do the board digging fine, but he doesn?t have the body for pinning a check + support singlehandedly the way Hyman does. He can tip in point shots, and has a better-than Hyman shot, but he?s best utilized in motion: fast breaks, three-line pass receptions.

The most obviously solution to me is swapping wings with Marner. Marner doesn?t rely on speed to transport the puck, it?s all deception and agility. They can swap east-west after they gain the zone and set up, or Marner can set up some Tavares one-timers.

 

[ZBBM]

The most obviously solution to me is swapping wings with Marner.

Hey.  I said that too.  But without, you know, the factual basis.

 

[Bender]

Is Zach Hyman a top-6 forward? That's a tricky question to answer. Player roles and definitions are changing. Here's what I do know though: for 3 straight seasons he's been a part of some of the best lines in hockey.

In 16/17 the Hyman-Matthews-Nylander line ranked 5th in the NHL in terms of expected goals for.

In 17/18 the Hyman-Matthews-Nylander line ranked 1st in the NHL in terms of expected goals for.

In 18/19 the Hyman-Tavares-Marner line ranked 1st in the NHL in terms of expected goals for.

Does Hyman deserve all of the credit for that level of success? No. Does he deserve most of the credit for that level of success? No. Does he even deserve an equal amount of credit among his linemates for that level of success? Again, I would say no. But he has a proven and consistent track record of success on elite level #1 lines. The guy has to be doing something right that can't quite be replicated by any random 3rd liner.

Basically that last part... what's different about Hyman vs Rando 3rd/4th liner?

I think he's an expert at boxing out the play and making sure his linemates have the puck most of the time. Hockey coaches talk a lot about simplifying the game, cutting down the ice and space in defense, and I think Hyman basically does that on offense. His forecheck and positioning essentially shrinks the play down to his linemates get the puck and everyone else does not.

So Tavares/Marner, Matthews/Nylander get a boost in the number of puck touches and plays they get to make. They're spending less of their time fetching the puck (hard) and more of their ice time making plays (awesome). Hyman is an offense catalyst: he doesn't really take part in the offense other than reducing the energy requirement to score goals and make points.

Put him on a 3rd or 4th line and he's wasted making space for okay players. Put him on your top line with your most consistent playmakers and scorers and the puck goes into the net.

For all the people who used to love latter day Gary Roberts playing with Sundin it's amazing how much hate Hyman gets.

 

[Guilt Trip]

For all the people who used to love latter day Gary Roberts playing with Sundin it's amazing how much hate Hyman gets.

No one is hating on Hyman here. We all know he'll be back with JT as soon as he gets back.
You think Hyman is comparable to Roberts when he played for the Leafs? Roberts still had hands for both scoring goals and punching people in the face when he played for the Leafs. He also stood up for teammates in ways no one on this Leafs team could come close to. Roberts was a rare breed and a true power forward, much like Clark. They intimidated the other teams. Hyman is good at what he does but he isn't close to Roberts. Could you imagine Roberts even in his Leafs days riding left wing with Matthews or JT? Brad Marchand would've been punched out a few times now.

 

[Bender]

For all the people who used to love latter day Gary Roberts playing with Sundin it's amazing how much hate Hyman gets.

No one is hating on Hyman here. We all know he'll be back with JT as soon as he gets back.
You think Hyman is comparable to Roberts when he played for the Leafs? Roberts still had hands for both scoring goals and punching people in the face when he played for the Leafs. He also stood up for teammates in ways no one on this Leafs team could come close to. Roberts was a rare breed and a true power forward, much like Clark. They intimidated the other teams. Hyman is good at what he does but he isn't close to Roberts. Could you imagine Roberts even in his Leafs days riding left wing with Matthews or JT? Brad Marchand would've been punched out a few times now.

I didn't say they were the exact same player. I'm saying Roberts was usually a third wheel on lines with Sundin, had some scoring, sure, but probably not as much as memory serves, although he was superb in the playoffs. He brought some grit and sandpaper and some talent to a line. Hyman does the same thing. Hyman isn't as talented as Roberts, no, but I'm basically saying the roles they're asked to play isn't entirely dissimilar and both Hyman is and Roberts was pretty effective at it. Hyman isn't a bottom 6 scrub 40 & 41 pts (scoring 21 last year... Roberts also scored 21 in 2001-02) isn't nothing.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I'm not going to quote the whole thing. Hyman got 7 empty netters last year so scoring 14 with JT and Marner isn't anything special. Roberts always scored over 20 and he wasn't the 3rd wheel on Sundin's line. I'm sorry but Hyman doesn't bring anything close to what Roberts did. He's a very hard worker but at the end of the day Hyman is a bottom 6 guy, talent/scoring touch wise, who happens to plays in the top 6 with 2 superstars.

 

[Kin]

Obviously we saw a lot of configurations over the years the Sundin and Roberts played on the Leafs but I don't remember Roberts spending a ton of time on Sundin's wing. It was Hoglund primarily in the early years.

 

[hockeyfan1]

The JT/Marner line needs Hyman, one of the best forechecking forwards in the game, that the Leafs have.

Kapanen simply doesn?t equate in the same way Hyman resonates with the line.  Kappy loves the puck to shoot & carry in, whereas Hyman makes room and is a good ?distraction? or attention-getter whenever he jostles for the puck quite possibly leading to a penalty for the opposition, or just plain distraction, leaving Tavares and especially Marner to free wheel optimally.

Hope both Hyman (& Dermott) will be ready to return to the Leaf lineup come November.