Bruins vs. Maple Leafs - Nov. 2nd, 7:30pm - SNO, TSN 1050

[Guilt Trip]

He's literally made a career out of this, getting paid to watch and talk about hockey seems ok to me.

He's still a moron.

 

[Joe S.]

For all those up in arms about Reaves not ?taking action? (who I?m in I way defending), was he ever on the ice at the same time as Marchand? I?m assuming not because Boston has last change.

And has Marchand ever been taken to task by anyone? Some of you make this sound like this is a leafs problem, but he?s been a slippery weasel for his entire career and seems that no team ever does anything to him.

 

[Guilt Trip]

For all those up in arms about Reaves not ?taking action? (who I?m in I way defending, was he ever on the ice at the same time as Marchand? I?m assuming not because Boston has last change.

And has Marchand ever been taken to task by anyone? Some of you make this sound like this is a leafs problem, but he?s been a slippery weasel for his entire career and seems that no team ever does anything to him.

Reeves was on the ice for just over a minute of 5v5 against Marchand. You can bet most of that was in our end with the 4th line being caught out. I guess he's supposed to chase him around or something. There's zero chance Marchand will fight anyone who can fight and no chance the Bruins with last change will put him out with Reeves on the ice. Let's see what happens when the Leafs have last change but it's going to have to be McCabe or someone like that to do something.

 

[dappleganger]

Reaves isn't going to fight Marchand. Reaves is a heavyweight and Marchand, just isn't.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

For all those up in arms about Reaves not ?taking action? (who I?m in I way defending, was he ever on the ice at the same time as Marchand? I?m assuming not because Boston has last change.

And has Marchand ever been taken to task by anyone? Some of you make this sound like this is a leafs problem, but he?s been a slippery weasel for his entire career and seems that no team ever does anything to him.

You're right about Reaves v. Marchand specifically. I didn't expect anyone to go out there and beat the snot out of him. And quite frankly even if they did aside from making some fans feel better it wouldn't have changed anything: Lily would still have been hurt and Marchand would still continue to gleefully attempt to injure his peers until his miserable career ends. It's also why the argument that Bennett would have never attempted to injure Knies in the playoffs if Reaves was in the line-up was and always has been foolish.

But, like, nothing from Reaves after that? He doesn't have to go after Marchand, or even try and hurt another player to get some pound of flesh, but he can't throw a 4th liner through the boards at some point? He can't grab a guy after a whistle in a scrum and just throw him around a little bit? Ditto for guys like Bertuzzi and Domi who were supposed to provide that stuff? And as ZBBM said if you aren't going to react with that sort of toughness you can at least beat them on the scoreboard and aside from a 2-minute offensive outburst the team in general kind of acted like that game meant nothing to them. It's tough to not be a little disappointed in that as a fan.

 

[dappleganger]

You really hit the nail on the head there CTB. If the Leafs weren't going to retaliate, they needed to win the game. Show your gumption there. The Leafs did neither.

Disappointed is correct.

 

[azzurri63]

For all those up in arms about Reaves not ?taking action? (who I?m in I way defending, was he ever on the ice at the same time as Marchand? I?m assuming not because Boston has last change.

And has Marchand ever been taken to task by anyone? Some of you make this sound like this is a leafs problem, but he?s been a slippery weasel for his entire career and seems that no team ever does anything to him.

You're right about Reaves v. Marchand specifically. I didn't expect anyone to go out there and beat the snot out of him. And quite frankly even if they did aside from making some fans feel better it wouldn't have changed anything: Lily would still have been hurt and Marchand would still continue to gleefully attempt to injure his peers until his miserable career ends. It's also why the argument that Bennett would have never attempted to injure Knies in the playoffs if Reaves was in the line-up was and always has been foolish.

But, like, nothing from Reaves after that? He doesn't have to go after Marchand, or even try and hurt another player to get some pound of flesh, but he can't throw a 4th liner through the boards at some point? He can't grab a guy after a whistle in a scrum and just throw him around a little bit? Ditto for guys like Bertuzzi and Domi who were supposed to provide that stuff? And as ZBBM said if you aren't going to react with that sort of toughness you can at least beat them on the scoreboard and aside from a 2-minute offensive outburst the team in general kind of acted like that game meant nothing to them. It's tough to not be a little disappointed in that as a fan.

100% correct. If not Marchand then lay out someone else with a clean hit. Like I posted earlier I saw at least 2 instances when Marchand had the puck and could have gotten hit and both Leaf players ignored trying and I missed a chunk of the 2nd. You can't tell me there isn't an opportunity in a game and the Bruins having last change is simply rubbish.

 

[louisstamos]

In the end, the Leafs didn't need a Ryan Reeves.  They needed their own version of Sam Bennett.  Reeves isn't that.

 

[Peter D.]

In the end, the Leafs didn't need a Ryan Reeves.  They needed their own version of Sam Bennett.  Reeves isn't that.

This isn't just meant towards Reaves, but is the prototypical enforcer/goon even needed anymore?  They are generally talentless hacks who play 5 to 7 minutes a game, not that intimidating, and get into the odd fight, which really doesn't do anything anymore. 

I'd rather a guy, for example, like Pat Maroon, who is big, unafraid to mix things up, can be a little greasy, yet throw in the odd timely play or goal. 

 

[rdowdall]

For all those up in arms about Reaves not ?taking action? (who I?m in I way defending, was he ever on the ice at the same time as Marchand? I?m assuming not because Boston has last change.

And has Marchand ever been taken to task by anyone? Some of you make this sound like this is a leafs problem, but he?s been a slippery weasel for his entire career and seems that no team ever does anything to him.

You're right about Reaves v. Marchand specifically. I didn't expect anyone to go out there and beat the snot out of him. And quite frankly even if they did aside from making some fans feel better it wouldn't have changed anything: Lily would still have been hurt and Marchand would still continue to gleefully attempt to injure his peers until his miserable career ends. It's also why the argument that Bennett would have never attempted to injure Knies in the playoffs if Reaves was in the line-up was and always has been foolish.

But, like, nothing from Reaves after that? He doesn't have to go after Marchand, or even try and hurt another player to get some pound of flesh, but he can't throw a 4th liner through the boards at some point? He can't grab a guy after a whistle in a scrum and just throw him around a little bit? Ditto for guys like Bertuzzi and Domi who were supposed to provide that stuff? And as ZBBM said if you aren't going to react with that sort of toughness you can at least beat them on the scoreboard and aside from a 2-minute offensive outburst the team in general kind of acted like that game meant nothing to them. It's tough to not be a little disappointed in that as a fan.

I think the issue with the Leafs team that is hard to reconcile is that there is a belief that there is enough talent on this team to win a cup, but that in order for that to happen, things have to align properly.

That doesn't mean that things don't have to align properly for other teams, but maybe there are less things that need to align.  If we look at things at a very high level and take Vegas as a use case, the only thing they needed to have align for them last year was their goaltending.  That was the only question that they needed to have answered.  Sure there were all the other questions that every team needs to answer, like health, and if guys don't get cold or play up to their ability, but the only real question mark they had as a team was would the goaltending be able to make the saves that they needed them to make.  There offensive depth was good, they had game breakers, and their 6 defensemen were among the best in the league.  So chances were that they were going to win a fair amount of games if the goaltending didn't let them down.

It's like the reverse of the Leafs though.  There are questions about the defense, there are questions about the offensive depth, and there are questions about the goaltending.  Sure, if all those things align, the Leafs could win a cup because they know they have the top end talent part to compete with other teams. 

This is what leads to most of the arguments on here about the team, because both sides are right with their assumptions.  The people who want to look at the positive side, like Guilt Trip, can point to the core of Reilly, Matthews, Nylander, Marner, and Tavares and say it's a really good core, probably one of the best cores in the league.  And if you have a strong core, you will make the playoffs, and once you are in the playoffs, you have a chance to win.  That core could win a cup.  Hell Karlsson dragged the Ottawa Senators to the conference finals pretty much by himself.  The Leafs have 4 players that are capable of that kind of dominance.

However, those that want to look at the negative side of things, like Azzuri63, also have a point.  This team has weaknesses, and probably more weaknesses than other teams that get papered over because of the strength of the core.  If the core doesn't produce, or has a bad game, or has bad luck, or is outperformed by the players on the other team, there isn't anything there for the team to fallback on.  There isn't enough depth/defensive structure/goaltending to overcome that. 

So is it possible for this team to win a cup?  I would say yes, it is possible.  Is it likely? That's where I have a hard time coming up with a number.  I think it's more likely than some other teams, but I don't think I would put them in the same category as Vegas, New Jersey, Colorado, or Carolina. 

All of this is just a really long winded way of saying that both sides are right, which is why the arguments persist.

 

[Bender]

Players like Clark must just cringe watching this team over the last few years. Absolutely putrid how they have absolutely no pushback and toughness.

I can't believe how many positive comments there are here tonight, every Leaf fan should be livid, it's pathetic how weak we are.

It's hockey and it was a very good game. I can't figure out why some get all bent out if shape after a few goals against.
And Marchand isn't going to fight anyone so you want someone giving him a glove facewash.

Players like Clark must just cringe watching this team over the last few years. Absolutely putrid how they have absolutely no pushback and toughness.

I can't believe how many positive comments there are here tonight, every Leaf fan should be livid, it's pathetic how weak we are.

It's hockey and it was a very good game. I can't figure out why some get all bent out if shape after a few goals against.
And Marchand isn't going to fight anyone so you want someone giving him a glove facewash.

I'm so completely dumbfounded by this, so much so I can't deal with fans like this anymore. I'm tired of trying to talk sense to you guys year after year so I'll let my man Steve do it for me, you need to watch to the end and absorb it. They lied to us, they are a broken team and need to fixed, period.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL1RIaU1bwE

Your man Steve? There's a prime example of an idiot. Anyway thanks for trying to talk sense into me but I'll be just fine with my way of thinking.

LOL Steve Dangle is a moron. I mean it's great that Elmo watches the Leafs, but does he have to record a screaming breakdown of the game?

He's literally made a career out of this, getting paid to watch and talk about hockey seems ok to me.

Fine by me too, but his screaming is legitimately annoying.

 

[Bender]

In the end, the Leafs didn't need a Ryan Reeves.  They needed their own version of Sam Bennett.  Reeves isn't that.

This isn't just meant towards Reaves, but is the prototypical enforcer/goon even needed anymore?  They are generally talentless hacks who play 5 to 7 minutes a game, not that intimidating, and get into the odd fight, which really doesn't do anything anymore. 

I'd rather a guy, for example, like Pat Maroon, who is big, unafraid to mix things up, can be a little greasy, yet throw in the odd timely play or goal. 

Right? I mean it's just hilarious to me that Reaves talked smack about Corey Perry when he'd be the perfect dirtbag Reaves replacement type of player. Hard nosed, a bit dirty, will muck it up and get in the scrum but can actually play.

 

[Bender]

For all those up in arms about Reaves not ?taking action? (who I?m in I way defending, was he ever on the ice at the same time as Marchand? I?m assuming not because Boston has last change.

And has Marchand ever been taken to task by anyone? Some of you make this sound like this is a leafs problem, but he?s been a slippery weasel for his entire career and seems that no team ever does anything to him.

You're right about Reaves v. Marchand specifically. I didn't expect anyone to go out there and beat the snot out of him. And quite frankly even if they did aside from making some fans feel better it wouldn't have changed anything: Lily would still have been hurt and Marchand would still continue to gleefully attempt to injure his peers until his miserable career ends. It's also why the argument that Bennett would have never attempted to injure Knies in the playoffs if Reaves was in the line-up was and always has been foolish.

But, like, nothing from Reaves after that? He doesn't have to go after Marchand, or even try and hurt another player to get some pound of flesh, but he can't throw a 4th liner through the boards at some point? He can't grab a guy after a whistle in a scrum and just throw him around a little bit? Ditto for guys like Bertuzzi and Domi who were supposed to provide that stuff? And as ZBBM said if you aren't going to react with that sort of toughness you can at least beat them on the scoreboard and aside from a 2-minute offensive outburst the team in general kind of acted like that game meant nothing to them. It's tough to not be a little disappointed in that as a fan.

I think the issue with the Leafs team that is hard to reconcile is that there is a belief that there is enough talent on this team to win a cup, but that in order for that to happen, things have to align properly.

That doesn't mean that things don't have to align properly for other teams, but maybe there are less things that need to align.  If we look at things at a very high level and take Vegas as a use case, the only thing they needed to have align for them last year was their goaltending.  That was the only question that they needed to have answered.  Sure there were all the other questions that every team needs to answer, like health, and if guys don't get cold or play up to their ability, but the only real question mark they had as a team was would the goaltending be able to make the saves that they needed them to make.  There offensive depth was good, they had game breakers, and their 6 defensemen were among the best in the league.  So chances were that they were going to win a fair amount of games if the goaltending didn't let them down.

It's like the reverse of the Leafs though.  There are questions about the defense, there are questions about the offensive depth, and there are questions about the goaltending.  Sure, if all those things align, the Leafs could win a cup because they know they have the top end talent part to compete with other teams. 

This is what leads to most of the arguments on here about the team, because both sides are right with their assumptions.  The people who want to look at the positive side, like Guilt Trip, can point to the core of Reilly, Matthews, Nylander, Marner, and Tavares and say it's a really good core, probably one of the best cores in the league.  And if you have a strong core, you will make the playoffs, and once you are in the playoffs, you have a chance to win.  That core could win a cup.  Hell Karlsson dragged the Ottawa Senators to the conference finals pretty much by himself.  The Leafs have 4 players that are capable of that kind of dominance.

However, those that want to look at the negative side of things, like Azzuri63, also have a point.  This team has weaknesses, and probably more weaknesses than other teams that get papered over because of the strength of the core.  If the core doesn't produce, or has a bad game, or has bad luck, or is outperformed by the players on the other team, there isn't anything there for the team to fallback on.  There isn't enough depth/defensive structure/goaltending to overcome that. 

So is it possible for this team to win a cup?  I would say yes, it is possible.  Is it likely? That's where I have a hard time coming up with a number.  I think it's more likely than some other teams, but I don't think I would put them in the same category as Vegas, New Jersey, Colorado, or Carolina. 

All of this is just a really long winded way of saying that both sides are right, which is why the arguments persist.

Azzuri won't be happy until the team goes 82-0 and 16-0 in the playoffs lol.

 

[rdowdall]

For all those up in arms about Reaves not ?taking action? (who I?m in I way defending, was he ever on the ice at the same time as Marchand? I?m assuming not because Boston has last change.

And has Marchand ever been taken to task by anyone? Some of you make this sound like this is a leafs problem, but he?s been a slippery weasel for his entire career and seems that no team ever does anything to him.

You're right about Reaves v. Marchand specifically. I didn't expect anyone to go out there and beat the snot out of him. And quite frankly even if they did aside from making some fans feel better it wouldn't have changed anything: Lily would still have been hurt and Marchand would still continue to gleefully attempt to injure his peers until his miserable career ends. It's also why the argument that Bennett would have never attempted to injure Knies in the playoffs if Reaves was in the line-up was and always has been foolish.

But, like, nothing from Reaves after that? He doesn't have to go after Marchand, or even try and hurt another player to get some pound of flesh, but he can't throw a 4th liner through the boards at some point? He can't grab a guy after a whistle in a scrum and just throw him around a little bit? Ditto for guys like Bertuzzi and Domi who were supposed to provide that stuff? And as ZBBM said if you aren't going to react with that sort of toughness you can at least beat them on the scoreboard and aside from a 2-minute offensive outburst the team in general kind of acted like that game meant nothing to them. It's tough to not be a little disappointed in that as a fan.

I think the issue with the Leafs team that is hard to reconcile is that there is a belief that there is enough talent on this team to win a cup, but that in order for that to happen, things have to align properly.

That doesn't mean that things don't have to align properly for other teams, but maybe there are less things that need to align.  If we look at things at a very high level and take Vegas as a use case, the only thing they needed to have align for them last year was their goaltending.  That was the only question that they needed to have answered.  Sure there were all the other questions that every team needs to answer, like health, and if guys don't get cold or play up to their ability, but the only real question mark they had as a team was would the goaltending be able to make the saves that they needed them to make.  There offensive depth was good, they had game breakers, and their 6 defensemen were among the best in the league.  So chances were that they were going to win a fair amount of games if the goaltending didn't let them down.

It's like the reverse of the Leafs though.  There are questions about the defense, there are questions about the offensive depth, and there are questions about the goaltending.  Sure, if all those things align, the Leafs could win a cup because they know they have the top end talent part to compete with other teams. 

This is what leads to most of the arguments on here about the team, because both sides are right with their assumptions.  The people who want to look at the positive side, like Guilt Trip, can point to the core of Reilly, Matthews, Nylander, Marner, and Tavares and say it's a really good core, probably one of the best cores in the league.  And if you have a strong core, you will make the playoffs, and once you are in the playoffs, you have a chance to win.  That core could win a cup.  Hell Karlsson dragged the Ottawa Senators to the conference finals pretty much by himself.  The Leafs have 4 players that are capable of that kind of dominance.

However, those that want to look at the negative side of things, like Azzuri63, also have a point.  This team has weaknesses, and probably more weaknesses than other teams that get papered over because of the strength of the core.  If the core doesn't produce, or has a bad game, or has bad luck, or is outperformed by the players on the other team, there isn't anything there for the team to fallback on.  There isn't enough depth/defensive structure/goaltending to overcome that. 

So is it possible for this team to win a cup?  I would say yes, it is possible.  Is it likely? That's where I have a hard time coming up with a number.  I think it's more likely than some other teams, but I don't think I would put them in the same category as Vegas, New Jersey, Colorado, or Carolina. 

All of this is just a really long winded way of saying that both sides are right, which is why the arguments persist.

Azzuri won't be happy until the team goes 82-0 and 16-0 in the playoffs lol.

I don't think that is necessarily true.  While I don't agree with the tone of their posts, I also don't disagree with some of the points.  There are flaws with this team, and they are glaring.  They do play down to their opponent, and they have a hard time sometimes establishing their game plan.  Those things can be frustrating because they feel like things that can be fixed through coaching/team leadership.  But they aren't being addressed, so what's going on behind closed doors?

 

[Bender]

The Leafs could go 81-1 and if the Leafs look horrible in that one loss you bet your ass Azzuri will be losing his mind.

 

[rdowdall]

The Leafs could go 81-1 and if the Leafs look horrible in that one loss you bet your ass Azzuri will be losing his mind.

Perhaps.  I'm not really a betting person.  Also, I like my ass and I wouldn't want to lose it on the off chance that Azzuri didn't watch that game. 

 

[ZBBM]

As others have said, last night wasn't about somebody smashing Marchand's whiny face.  But there was no on-ice response at all to a dirty play.

Hockey is a game of skill, but it's also a game of emotion.  Emotions completely unchecked are bad, but no emotions at all are arguably worse.  I personally think this team's thermostat is set too low.  We've seen it again and again. 

I'm not advocating taking Tavares's C away because he does a lot of great things in that role, but they need at least one important player on the team who simply won't put up with the kind of crap Marchand pulls.  I think that was what Treliving was aiming for in Reaves, but he's a 4th liner, and quite frankly a bit of sideshow. 

I also think Keefe is lacking in this area.  There is no energy transfer from him to the bench.  Maybe they don't need a Pat Burns back there but they need something closer to him than Keefe.

 

[Redleaf]

As others have said, last night wasn't about somebody smashing Marchand's whiny face.  But there was no on-ice response at all to a dirty play.

Hockey is a game of skill, but it's also a game of emotion.  Emotions completely unchecked are bad, but no emotions at all are arguably worse.  I personally think this team's thermostat is set too low.  We've seen it again and again. 

I'm not advocating taking Tavares's C away because he does a lot of great things in that role, but they need at least one important player on the team who simply won't put up with the kind of crap Marchand pulls.  I think that was what Treliving was aiming for in Reaves, but he's a 4th liner, and quite frankly a bit of sideshow. 

I also think Keefe is lacking in this area.  There is no energy transfer from him to the bench.  Maybe they don't need a Pat Burns back there but they need something closer to him than Keefe.

Oh I think a Pat Burns type coach is precisely what this group of players need to ignite some emotion every now and then.

 

[rdowdall]

Here is the reaction of the Detroit Red Wings to Draper being fired into the boards by Lemiuex in 1996.  Just throwing up here for the sake of something to compare too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkMSSxWPrqE

 

[ZBBM]

Here is the reaction of the Detroit Red Wings to Draper being fired into the boards by Lemiuex in 1996.  Just throwing up here for the sake of something to compare too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkMSSxWPrqE

I love Harry Neale's reaction.