Burke Fired

[OldTimeHockey]

You have no proof of what he knows about what happened with Burke other than what you think he knows and really, doesn't that go against your own signature?

Well, sure, except I'm not the one making up facts here. I really don't see how McCowan would be privy to information from a private conversation of this magnitude. It's damaging to everyone involved if it comes out. If it was true, Nonis wouldn't be sticking around either, nor would any of the other veteran hockey guys Burke brought in. If management was meddling to the point where they threatened Burke's job if he didn't acquire a specific player, they all would have quit knowing full well they'd have an easy time getting jobs elsewhere. I don't doubt that someone told McCowan that this conversation went down, I just don't believe for one second that this person is anywhere close to connected enough to it to be true.

And like I said, why would Burke stay on with an Organization that did that to him.

To keep his $3 mil a year coming because otherwise if he opens his mouth
he could get his contract dumped? I know that would be a legal battle and PR problem but obviously that means zippo to MLSE. I do realize that Burke will get his dough anyway so my comment is mostly tongue-in-cheek....

In all likelihood Burke will not have to lift a finger or exercise a jaw to be "a special advisor"....which means little as he's advising not to get Luongo.

If your boss came in and said "do this, this and this or you're fired" despite you being the GM of a hockey team and him being some head of a board that knows little about the sport would you continue working for him/them afterwards, even if you knew you'd be getting your 3 million a year? I sure as heck wouldn't.




The only way I see any of this going down is if it was a mutual agreement that he'd step down and Nonis would come in. I just can't fathom any other situation where Burke doesn't tell him/them to shove it up their rearends.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Luongo has proven that his play cracks under pressure. He's gotten benched in the playoffs 2 years in a row and in 2010 Canada won in spite of him not because of him. Remember the 2011 playoffs, when he gave up 15 goals in the 3 Stanley Cup final games in Boston? Also consider the fact that he's 33 and his statistics declined last year to the point where he was only in the middle of the pack (16th in GAA, 12th in SV%).

You do know what overrated means right Justin? Overpaid, sure...but overrated? Would he of been demoted to backup if he was overrated? Would Canuck fans be chasing him out of town if he was overrated?

I'm not going to get into this too much as a very similar discussion is going on over in the Luongo thread, but at least explain to me why he's overrated, not overpaid.

It wasn't long ago that Luongo was considered an elite goaltender. Some people still think that. I'm simply saying, wait a second here, we're not exactly getting all-star here. It's all moot though because of his contract. IMO, his contract should start and end the discussion of Luongo becoming a Leaf.

It wasn't long ago that he was an Elite goalie and in fact, his numbers aren't that far removed from those elite days.

I don't like his contract either and from what I read of the new CBA, I like it even less, which IMHO, should lower his value.

 

[Wendel's Fist]

You have no proof of what he knows about what happened with Burke other than what you think he knows and really, doesn't that go against your own signature?

Well, sure, except I'm not the one making up facts here. I really don't see how McCowan would be privy to information from a private conversation of this magnitude. It's damaging to everyone involved if it comes out. If it was true, Nonis wouldn't be sticking around either, nor would any of the other veteran hockey guys Burke brought in. If management was meddling to the point where they threatened Burke's job if he didn't acquire a specific player, they all would have quit knowing full well they'd have an easy time getting jobs elsewhere. I don't doubt that someone told McCowan that this conversation went down, I just don't believe for one second that this person is anywhere close to connected enough to it to be true.

Your saying that you know what McCown knows is wrong but you keep saying it as if it's a fact. That's making things up.

You may disagree with what he says but saying that you know that he's lying is absolute bs. You have no idea what really happened and you're using your bias against McCown to paint your own picture.

I really doubt that Burke got fired right before trades can start happening because of what Anselmi had to say today. I'm guessing Luongo will be a Leaf next week but I could be wrong.

Either way, we'll find out the truth soon enough.

 

[Kin]

Your saying that you know what McCown knows is wrong but you keep saying it as if it's a fact. That's making things up.

Actually what busta is saying is that he doesn't believe McCown and doesn't think he's telling the truth. Leaving aside the fact that it's not incumbent on anyone to disprove a hard to believe and unsubstantiated claim, the only one using such definitive language is you.

 

[bustaheims]

Your saying that you know what McCown knows is wrong but you keep saying it as if it's a fact. That's making things up.

No, I'm saying that I don't see any realistic, logical and practical way by which McCowan could have come to have the information he claims to have. It benefits no one who would have been involved in that private conversation to provide that information to McCowan. I'm saying that McCowan's story is questionable at best.

You may disagree with what he says but saying that you know that he's lying is absolute bs. You have no idea what really happened and you're using your bias against McCown to paint your own picture.

Again, I'm not saying he's lying. I don't doubt that someone told him something similar to what he's passing on to us. I just have extreme doubts that the person providing that information was privy to the conversation they claim to have been privy to.

I really doubt that Burke got fired right before trades can start happening because of what Anselmi had to say today. I'm guessing Luongo will be a Leaf next week but I could be wrong.

Either way, we'll find out the truth soon enough.

Let's be honest, Nonis has done the legwork for most of the major deals done under Burke's tenure as GM - something Burke has acknowledged himself. If Burke's not in charge anymore, that doesn't change. There's still plenty of continuity in the front office that any moves that may have been being discussed would still very much be in play - because Nonis would have been heavily involved in those discussions. As for what Anselmi said today - more reputable hockey insiders than McCowan have said that MLSE's new ownership have been looking at letting Burke go pretty much since they took control in August. Of course, with the lockout, there was no reason to push it. Now that the lockout is ending, they either had to make the move before the season started or wait until things got going, and firing the GM if the team performed decently (or even well) would have been just as, if not more, questionable than doing so right now.

 

[Screwball]

Hi Guys,

Did I miss anything?

 

[Corn Flake]

If this has anything to do with the Luongo deal I'll be pretty pissed.

If it does, well then I guess it's going to be fantastic to be stuck with an overrated, overpaid goalie  :

Although I'm unsold on giving up the farm for Luongo, how do you figure he's overrated?

I'm going to jump in on this one.

Luongo has proven that his play cracks under pressure. He's gotten benched in the playoffs 2 years in a row and in 2010 Canada won in spite of him not because of him. Remember the 2011 playoffs, when he gave up 15 goals in the 3 Stanley Cup final games in Boston? Also consider the fact that he's 33 and his statistics declined last year to the point where he was only in the middle of the pack (16th in GAA, 12th in SV%).

You don't remember Vancouver getting physically mauled during that series and completely overwhelmed by Boston's style of play, not to mention their crazed fans who are all over them? Luongo had his moments in that series for sure but that whole team got run right over.

Where is the evidence that Canada won gold in spite of Luongo?

His save % has been consistently solid for his entire career.  It goes up and down a bit year over year but overall very consistent - as solid as anyone else out there.

 

[moon111]

The Darcy Tucker buyout is still on the payroll.  Bozak was found under a rock and was made the #1 center because the team had no farm system.  Fixing that has been Burke's biggest achievement.  But more importantly, he didn't sign the crazy contracts and set the team up to reap in the rewards next season.  I think it's a shame Burke is fired at this point.

 

[Corn Flake]

McCown has had Brian Burke over for lunch. You read twitter accounts from reporters.

The McCown hanging out with Burke thing is well known because Bob loves to tell us that stuff. If Bob was relaying info directly from their personal get togethers, you can bet that it would only happen once.

The reason why media keep their sources anonymous is so that they will keep feeding them info. The moment they reveal that, that source will clam right up for good.

 

[Bullfrog]

Hi Guys,

Did I miss anything?

Someone got promoted.

 

[Justin]

If this has anything to do with the Luongo deal I'll be pretty pissed.

If it does, well then I guess it's going to be fantastic to be stuck with an overrated, overpaid goalie  :

Although I'm unsold on giving up the farm for Luongo, how do you figure he's overrated?

I'm going to jump in on this one.

Luongo has proven that his play cracks under pressure. He's gotten benched in the playoffs 2 years in a row and in 2010 Canada won in spite of him not because of him. Remember the 2011 playoffs, when he gave up 15 goals in the 3 Stanley Cup final games in Boston? Also consider the fact that he's 33 and his statistics declined last year to the point where he was only in the middle of the pack (16th in GAA, 12th in SV%).

You don't remember Vancouver getting physically mauled during that series and completely overwhelmed by Boston's style of play, not to mention their crazed fans who are all over them? Luongo had his moments in that series for sure but that whole team got run right over.

Where is the evidence that Canada won gold in spite of Luongo?

His save % has been consistently solid for his entire career.  It goes up and down a bit year over year but overall very consistent - as solid as anyone else out there.

I do remember that, but is there aren't many excuses for letting in 15 goals in 3 Stanley Cup finals games. That's horrid. I'm also saying Canada won in spite of Luongo because he let in that horrible Parise goal with 24 seconds left in regulation. We were about to win in regulation, don't forget. And with the SV% and GAA, I'm just pointing out that he was in the middle of the pack last year (while playing on the President's Trophy winning team). We don't know whether that's a statistical drop-off or a 1 year hiatus from his top-10 numbers. Just remember this: Numerous reports suggested Luongo would prefer to play in a low-key market such as Florida. We saw what Vancouver did to him, now just imagine Toronto.

 

[Bullfrog]

We saw what Vancouver did to him, now just imagine Toronto.

While I'm sure some might agree with you, I didn't see Vancouver doing anything to him as you see it. His stats are rock solid consistent across his whole career.

 

[Kin]

I'm also saying Canada won in spite of Luongo because he let in that horrible Parise goal with 24 seconds left in regulation.

What was so horrible about that goal? Parise was all alone in front of the net. It was a defensive lapse, not a 30 footer that beat him five hole.

And with the SV% and GAA, I'm just pointing out that he was in the middle of the pack last year (while playing on the President's Trophy winning team).

Not true. He was 10th among goalies who played more than 40 games in SV%, 12th in GAA.

We don't know whether that's a statistical drop-off or a 1 year hiatus from his top-10 numbers.

It was top 10 numbers and the drop off, if that's what it was, wasn't from top 10 numbers but rather from a Vezina nominated season.

 

[rdowdall]

What if the opposite is true?  What if Burke wanted to bring in Luongo, but the board said no.

I almost hope for that.  Like the Kessel deal, I feel that a deal for Luongo at this time is not in the best interests of this team.  I really do feel that they need a player to build around, a foundation piece up front that could be a Leaf for 10 to 15 years.  I don't think the Leafs have to bottom out this year, just finish in the bottom 10, as a guy like Monahan may fit the bill and is projected to be available in the 6,7,8 range.

 

[ontariojames]

I don't like Burke's personality at all and I'm glad that he's gone, but in his defence If Komisarek and Beauchemin played like the solid top 4 defensive Dmen most, if not everyone, thought they were before TO signed them then Burke would probably still have a job. Considering they didn't miss the playoffs by much the year before and that their biggest problem was defence, adding two solid top 4 defensive Dmen should have given them a good chance to make the playoffs, and on top of that the draft pick would've ended up outside of the top 10 and Burke wouldn't have the Kessel deal hanging over his head.

 

[Justin]

We saw what Vancouver did to him, now just imagine Toronto.

While I'm sure some might agree with you, I didn't see Vancouver doing anything to him as you see it. His stats are rock solid consistent across his whole career.

So the whole Luongo cracking under pressure in Vancouver thing was more of a media fabrication? I wasn't close to the situation so I cannot say for certain.

 

[Justin]

I'm also saying Canada won in spite of Luongo because he let in that horrible Parise goal with 24 seconds left in regulation.

What was so horrible about that goal? Parise was all alone in front of the net. It was a defensive lapse, not a 30 footer that beat him five hole.

And with the SV% and GAA, I'm just pointing out that he was in the middle of the pack last year (while playing on the President's Trophy winning team).

Not true. He was 10th among goalies who played more than 40 games in SV%, 12th in GAA.

We don't know whether that's a statistical drop-off or a 1 year hiatus from his top-10 numbers.

It was top 10 numbers and the drop off, if that's what it was, wasn't from top 10 numbers but rather from a Vezina nominated season.

I don't remember the details of how the goal happened, I just know Luongo was this close to costing us the Olympics will that really late goal. As you've pointed out, Luongo still has better regular season stats than average or "middle of the pack" but that doesn't change the fact that coach Vigneault saw fit to bench Luongo in the playoffs not one but two years in a row. In fact, his playoff numbers have been horrid over the last 3 seasons.

 

[Kin]

I don't remember the details of how the goal happened, I just know Luongo was this close to costing us the Olympics will that really late goal.

Again, Parise was left all alone in front of the net. If Canada had lost that game, it's still not a terrible goal to let in and Luongo wouldn't have cost Canada the game. Luongo played well in that game and deserves credit for the win and for how he played in the rest of the tournament.

As you've pointed out, Luongo still has better regular season stats than average or "middle of the pack" but that doesn't change the fact that coach Vigneault saw fit to bench Luongo in the playoffs not one but two years in a row.

Luongo played in all 25 of Vancouver's post season games in 2010-2011, being "benched" for exactly one game that he ended up finishing anyway. His numbers that year, even with the mess against Boston, aren't horrid. He had a .914 sv% and four shut-outs. As I mentioned elsewhere, there's not a ton of difference between Luongo's career playoff numbers and Martin Brodeur's playoff numbers.

 

[Jalili]

I don't like Burke's personality at all and I'm glad that he's gone, but in his defence If Komisarek and Beauchemin played like the solid top 4 defensive Dmen most, if not everyone, thought they were before TO signed them then Burke would probably still have a job. Considering they didn't miss the playoffs by much the year before and that their biggest problem was defence, adding two solid top 4 defensive Dmen should have given them a good chance to make the playoffs, and on top of that the draft pick would've ended up outside of the top 10 and Burke wouldn't have the Kessel deal hanging over his head.

Komisarek did pretty terrible in his UFA year with Montreal, so the Leafs were taking a big gamble that he would regain his previous form.

 

[Corn Flake]

Not a big fan of Spector, but I feel like this could be the reality here:

link

The gist being that Burke didn't want to do the Luongo deal and while it wasn't the sole reason he was fired it was the final straw for ownership.  From the timing it really feels like the only thing that makes sense.