Carlyle Extended/Randy's Revenge

[GhostofPotvin29]

mirtle: Leafs have won 91 of 188 games under Carlyle. Only 78 wins in regulation or overtime. Outshot by 1,245 and 43.9% possession.

Terrible.

 

[L K]

mirtle: Leafs have won 91 of 188 games under Carlyle. Only 78 wins in regulation or overtime. Outshot by 1,245 and 43.9% possession.

That Paul Maurice guy:  76-66-22 (3-11 in shootouts)    *That got him fired in two years

 

[Arn]

There were a couple of stats Mirtle threw out last night during the game.

Shot attempts were something like 43-13 in favour of the Jets and 27% possession for the Leafs.

I think those were around the end of the 2nd cos I gave up watching not long after that

 

[Redleaf]

mirtle: Leafs have won 91 of 188 games under Carlyle. Only 78 wins in regulation or overtime. Outshot by 1,245 and 43.9% possession.

Terrible.

I like how Mirtle framed it to appear like Carlyle is the sole reason for that record. Is he a friend of yours? :

 

[LuncheonMeat]

I say keep them and let the Leafs finish as low in the standings as possible. Hopefully with a little luck and a lottery win they end up with a great draft pick. You can then fire tweedle dee and tweedle dum.

Yeah, that works, too, but, I don't want Nonis running the show for the deadline. Not that I think he's really in charge anymore, but, still.

I don't feel confident the Leafs will make the playoffs, so the lower the better as far as I'm concerned.  If the slide continues, I can't help but think Shanahan will be the guy deciding who stays and who goes at the trade deadline.  My ideal scenario is accumulating picks first and prospects second, and drafting more skill ala Nylander.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

mirtle: Leafs have won 91 of 188 games under Carlyle. Only 78 wins in regulation or overtime. Outshot by 1,245 and 43.9% possession.

Terrible.

I like how Mirtle framed it to appear like Carlyle is the sole reason for that record. Is he a friend of yours? :

Yeah how awful of him to present the Leafs' results while Carlyle has been coach.  With other coaches league-wide their results are presented with smileys and other emoticons.

How has he "framed" anything in that tweet?  He presents what the Leafs' record is while Carlyle has been coach, what their possession has been and by how much they've been outshot.  The numbers are what they are - these are the numbers while he's been coach.

You're free to take them however you want.  Literally nowhere in that tweet does he say anything about Carlyle being the sole reason for it, nor does he even mention a reason.

 

[ZBBM]

mirtle: Leafs have won 91 of 188 games under Carlyle. Only 78 wins in regulation or overtime. Outshot by 1,245 and 43.9% possession.

Terrible.

I like how Mirtle framed it to appear like Carlyle is the sole reason for that record. Is he a friend of yours? :

Yeah how awful of him to present the Leafs' results while Carlyle has been coach.  With other coaches league-wide their results are presented with smileys and other emoticons.

How has he "framed" anything in that tweet?  He presents what the Leafs' record is while Carlyle has been coach, what their possession has been and by how much they've been outshot.  The numbers are what they are - these are the numbers while he's been coach.

You're free to take them however you want.  Literally nowhere in that tweet does he say anything about Carlyle being the sole reason for it, nor does he even mention a reason.

Well, though I happen to think that RC is the main reason for those stats by mentioning his name alone Mirtle makes a strong implication that Carlyle is the fault whether he intended that or not. After all he could have tweeted, say, the record while
Phaneuf was captain, leading folks to draw that conclusion.

 

[bustaheims]

mirtle: Leafs have won 91 of 188 games under Carlyle. Only 78 wins in regulation or overtime. Outshot by 1,245 and 43.9% possession.

Terrible.

I like how Mirtle framed it to appear like Carlyle is the sole reason for that record. Is he a friend of yours? :

It's funny how the only people who ever seem to believe that Carlyle is the sole reason for anything are those defending him. Mirtle is presenting facts. Facts don't have opinions.

 

[Redleaf]

mirtle: Leafs have won 91 of 188 games under Carlyle. Only 78 wins in regulation or overtime. Outshot by 1,245 and 43.9% possession.

Terrible.

I like how Mirtle framed it to appear like Carlyle is the sole reason for that record. Is he a friend of yours? :

Yeah how awful of him to present the Leafs' results while Carlyle has been coach.  With other coaches league-wide their results are presented with smileys and other emoticons.

How has he "framed" anything in that tweet?  He presents what the Leafs' record is while Carlyle has been coach, what their possession has been and by how much they've been outshot.  The numbers are what they are - these are the numbers while he's been coach.

You're free to take them however you want.  Literally nowhere in that tweet does he say anything about Carlyle being the sole reason for it, nor does he even mention a reason.

Well, though I happen to think that RC is the main reason for those stats by mentioning his name alone Mirtle makes a strong implication that Carlyle is the fault whether he intended that or not. After all he could have tweeted, say, the record while
Phaneuf was captain, leading folks to draw that conclusion.

Pretty much.

 

[Andy007]

mirtle: Leafs have won 91 of 188 games under Carlyle. Only 78 wins in regulation or overtime. Outshot by 1,245 and 43.9% possession.

Terrible.

I like how Mirtle framed it to appear like Carlyle is the sole reason for that record. Is he a friend of yours? :

Yeah how awful of him to present the Leafs' results while Carlyle has been coach.  With other coaches league-wide their results are presented with smileys and other emoticons.

How has he "framed" anything in that tweet?  He presents what the Leafs' record is while Carlyle has been coach, what their possession has been and by how much they've been outshot.  The numbers are what they are - these are the numbers while he's been coach.

You're free to take them however you want.  Literally nowhere in that tweet does he say anything about Carlyle being the sole reason for it, nor does he even mention a reason.

Well, though I happen to think that RC is the main reason for those stats by mentioning his name alone Mirtle makes a strong implication that Carlyle is the fault whether he intended that or not. After all he could have tweeted, say, the record while
Phaneuf was captain, leading folks to draw that conclusion.

But isn't that how you gauge team performance in any sport really? It's always the record under the coach.

 

[Redleaf]

mirtle: Leafs have won 91 of 188 games under Carlyle. Only 78 wins in regulation or overtime. Outshot by 1,245 and 43.9% possession.

Terrible.

I like how Mirtle framed it to appear like Carlyle is the sole reason for that record. Is he a friend of yours? :

It's funny how the only people who ever seem to believe that Carlyle is the sole reason for anything are those defending him. Mirtle is presenting facts. Facts don't have opinions.

Lol. Go tell that to a lawyer.

 

[Redleaf]

mirtle: Leafs have won 91 of 188 games under Carlyle. Only 78 wins in regulation or overtime. Outshot by 1,245 and 43.9% possession.

Terrible.

I like how Mirtle framed it to appear like Carlyle is the sole reason for that record. Is he a friend of yours? :

Yeah how awful of him to present the Leafs' results while Carlyle has been coach.  With other coaches league-wide their results are presented with smileys and other emoticons.

How has he "framed" anything in that tweet?  He presents what the Leafs' record is while Carlyle has been coach, what their possession has been and by how much they've been outshot.  The numbers are what they are - these are the numbers while he's been coach.

You're free to take them however you want.  Literally nowhere in that tweet does he say anything about Carlyle being the sole reason for it, nor does he even mention a reason.

Well, though I happen to think that RC is the main reason for those stats by mentioning his name alone Mirtle makes a strong implication that Carlyle is the fault whether he intended that or not. After all he could have tweeted, say, the record while
Phaneuf was captain, leading folks to draw that conclusion.

But isn't that how you gauge team performance in any sport really? It's always the record under the coach.

I would think the GM has more of an influence on a team than a coach. The coach can only play the players the GM decides to sign. Sure, coaches need to be held accountable, but even the best coaches in the world can't produce a winner without the right talent.

 

[AvroArrow]

The Clarkson signing was bad, but Nonis isn't forcing Carlyle to make Clarkson a fixture on the second unit power play. I'd give Carlyle the boot before Nonis.

Honestly, at this point, I'd give them both the boot at the same time. Carlyle for obvious reasons, and Nonis for not canning Carlyle when he had numerous chances, the Clarkson atrocity, the attempted Bolland atrocity and the lack of much in the way of positive moves under his guidance.

I say keep them and let the Leafs finish as low in the standings as possible. Hopefully with a little luck and a lottery win they end up with a great draft pick. You can then fire tweedle dee and tweedle dum.

No way - fire them and start trading everything you can (Reilly and Nylander are my only "untouchables").  Really bottom it out in every way possible while racking up picks/prospects.

 

[Redleaf]

So the Anaheim GM signs the right talent, and Carlyle coaches them into Stanley Cup champions.

Burke and Nonis hire him, do not sign enough talent, and now Carlyle has forgotten how to coach, or has grown to old to figure out the 'new' game?

I dunno...

 

[TML fan]

The talent argument just isn't washing anymore. Just look at the talent disparity in the WJHC. Denmark was no match for Canada but they could at least organize a breakout play. The Leafs look like a peewee house league team against even the worst ranked teams in the league. Put aside statistics for 2 seconds and just watch the game. Watch the other team. Look at how organized they look compared to the Leafs. The players have just flat out stopped listening to the coaching staff and it's probably because what he's asking them to do is straight up BS. I'm sure Randy is a super swell guy but he's a lousy coach and he needs to go. Improving the talent of a team with a broken system is like bailing a sinking boat with a spoon. It'll work for a bit, but she's still gonna sink.

 

[Zee]

The Clarkson signing was bad, but Nonis isn't forcing Carlyle to make Clarkson a fixture on the second unit power play. I'd give Carlyle the boot before Nonis.

Honestly, at this point, I'd give them both the boot at the same time. Carlyle for obvious reasons, and Nonis for not canning Carlyle when he had numerous chances, the Clarkson atrocity, the attempted Bolland atrocity and the lack of much in the way of positive moves under his guidance.

I say keep them and let the Leafs finish as low in the standings as possible. Hopefully with a little luck and a lottery win they end up with a great draft pick. You can then fire tweedle dee and tweedle dum.

No way - fire them and start trading everything you can (Reilly and Nylander are my only "untouchables").  Really bottom it out in every way possible while racking up picks/prospects.

If the Leafs are way out of it by the trade deadline I can see a fire sale to contenders.  There are tons of teams who would love a Kessel/JVR to augment their scoring.  Not sure about anyone else like Phaneuf, Clarkson is basically untradeable, Lupul is a get nothing back type of deal because of his injury problems.  I guess Gardiner and Kadri will still fetch something decent.  Honestly I'd keep Rielly, Nylander and Bernier but good luck getting teams to take the other players I mentioned without baggage coming back to the Leafs.

 

[Redleaf]

The talent argument just isn't washing anymore. Just look at the talent disparity in the WJHC. Denmark was no match for Canada but they could at least organize a breakout play. The Leafs look like a peewee house league team against even the worst ranked teams in the league. Put aside statistics for 2 seconds and just watch the game. Watch the other team. Look at how organized they look compared to the Leafs. The players have just flat out stopped listening to the coaching staff and it's probably because what he's asking them to do is straight up BS. I'm sure Randy is a super swell guy but he's a lousy coach and he needs to go. Improving the talent of a team with a broken system is like bailing a sinking boat with a spoon. It'll work for a bit, but she's still gonna sink.

Or, you could have the wrong way around. That makes a lot more sense.

 

[Zee]

The talent argument just isn't washing anymore. Just look at the talent disparity in the WJHC. Denmark was no match for Canada but they could at least organize a breakout play. The Leafs look like a peewee house league team against even the worst ranked teams in the league. Put aside statistics for 2 seconds and just watch the game. Watch the other team. Look at how organized they look compared to the Leafs. The players have just flat out stopped listening to the coaching staff and it's probably because what he's asking them to do is straight up BS. I'm sure Randy is a super swell guy but he's a lousy coach and he needs to go. Improving the talent of a team with a broken system is like bailing a sinking boat with a spoon. It'll work for a bit, but she's still gonna sink.

Or, you could have the wrong way around. That makes a lot more sense.

The fact they continue to get out shot is a systems thing pure and simple. There's no way the Leafs should be that bad at team defense with the roster they have. This problem with shots against / possession only began when Carlyle came onboard.

 

[bustaheims]

If the Leafs are way out of it by the trade deadline I can see a fire sale to contenders.  There are tons of teams who would love a Kessel/JVR to augment their scoring.  Not sure about anyone else like Phaneuf, Clarkson is basically untradeable, Lupul is a get nothing back type of deal because of his injury problems.  I guess Gardiner and Kadri will still fetch something decent.  Honestly I'd keep Rielly, Nylander and Bernier but good luck getting teams to take the other players I mentioned without baggage coming back to the Leafs.

The significant contracts likely need to wait until the off-season to be moved. The Leafs are also likely to get a better return for a lot of those guys at that point, too. At the deadline, I'd focus on moving out every single pending UFA.

 

[bustaheims]

The fact they continue to get out shot is a systems thing pure and simple. There's no way the Leafs should be that bad at team defense with the roster they have. This problem with shots against / possession only began when Carlyle came onboard.

Not only that, but, Carlyle's Ducks had the exact same issues in his final seasons there, and they were almost instantly improved when Boudreau took over. There's one common link here, and it's not the players on the roster or the guys negotiating the trades and contracts.