Carter to LA

[maplesyrup]

Is there another available top 6 guy out there that you think he's got his sights on?

Nash and Brown are the type of forward the Leafs need. A big guy like Carter or Ryan would obviously help, but they as aren't physical enough despite their size, and as such wouldn't fit as well as needed.

If Getzlaf ever did truly become available he would shoot straight to #1 on the list.

I'd like to include Ott's name (again.) He's probably not a top 6 guy on a lot of teams but the way Kulemin is going, Ott might represent an upgrade at this point.

 

[bustaheims]

Is there another available top 6 guy out there that you think he's got his sights on?

Well, as you mentioned, Brown and Nash. My guess is he's still trying to see if there's a deal to be made for Ryan. There's Ott, who's not really a top 6 guy, but adds the physical presence and has some offensive skills. Outside of that, who knows? One thing we've seen from Burke in his time with the Leafs is that he and his management group have been known to pull off deals under the radar.

 

[Madferret]

Is there another available top 6 guy out there that you think he's got his sights on?

Nash and Brown are the type of forward the Leafs need. A big guy like Carter or Ryan would obviously help, but they as aren't physical enough despite their size, and as such wouldn't fit as well as needed.

If Getzlaf ever did truly become available he would shoot straight to #1 on the list.

I'd like to include Ott's name (again.) He's probably not a top 6 guy on a lot of teams but the way Kulemin is going, Ott might represent an upgrade at this point.

Do you consider Ott a top 6 guy though?

 

[groundskeeper willie]

Nash and Brown are the type of forward the Leafs need. A big guy like Carter or Ryan would obviously help, but they as aren't physical enough despite their size, and as such wouldn't fit as well as needed.

If Getzlaf ever did truly become available he would shoot straight to #1 on the list.

I'm sorry, what? Ryan is just as, if not more physical than Nash.

I know their hit stats are similar, but the impression I've always taken from Ryan is that he uses his size more to outmuscle guys than punish them. I know Nash is no Lucic either, but he initiates contact more than Ryan. At least from what I've seen anyway.

 

[bustaheims]

I know their hit stats are similar, but the impression I've always taken from Ryan is that he uses his size more to outmuscle guys than punish them. I know Nash is no Lucic either, but he initiates contact more than Ryan. At least from what I've seen anyway.

Yeah, I have to disagree with you pretty strongly here. In terms of physicality, at worst, Ryan is on the same level as Nash.

 

[Madferret]

Is there another available top 6 guy out there that you think he's got his sights on?

Well, as you mentioned, Brown and Nash. My guess is he's still trying to see if there's a deal to be made for Ryan. There's Ott, who's not really a top 6 guy, but adds the physical presence and has some offensive skills. Outside of that, who knows? One thing we've seen from Burke in his time with the Leafs is that he and his management group have been known to pull off deals under the radar.

How badly would you say he needs to pull off a deal like acquiring Brown or Nash this deadline?

 

[groundskeeper willie]

Is there another available top 6 guy out there that you think he's got his sights on?

Nash and Brown are the type of forward the Leafs need. A big guy like Carter or Ryan would obviously help, but they as aren't physical enough despite their size, and as such wouldn't fit as well as needed.

If Getzlaf ever did truly become available he would shoot straight to #1 on the list.

I'd like to include Ott's name (again.) He's probably not a top 6 guy on a lot of teams but the way Kulemin is going, Ott might represent an upgrade at this point.

Do you consider Ott a top 6 guy though?

No he's not. He would make a good third liner, but I think the Leafs need to focus their assets elsewhere myself.

 

[maplesyrup]

Is there another available top 6 guy out there that you think he's got his sights on?

Nash and Brown are the type of forward the Leafs need. A big guy like Carter or Ryan would obviously help, but they as aren't physical enough despite their size, and as such wouldn't fit as well as needed.

If Getzlaf ever did truly become available he would shoot straight to #1 on the list.

I'd like to include Ott's name (again.) He's probably not a top 6 guy on a lot of teams but the way Kulemin is going, Ott might represent an upgrade at this point.

Do you consider Ott a top 6 guy though?

No... But maybe at some point he falls back to a 3rd line role when the 2nd figures itself out.

 

[bustaheims]

How badly would you say he needs to pull off a deal like acquiring Brown or Nash this deadline?

Nowhere close to as badly as a lot of other people. It's something that needs to be addressed before next season, but, if he can't do it at the right price before the deadline, then it's something that he can wait on. It's not like this team is a physical top 6 forward away from a Cup run.

 

[groundskeeper willie]

I know their hit stats are similar, but the impression I've always taken from Ryan is that he uses his size more to outmuscle guys than punish them. I know Nash is no Lucic either, but he initiates contact more than Ryan. At least from what I've seen anyway.

Yeah, I have to disagree with you pretty strongly here. In terms of physicality, at worst, Ryan is on the same level as Nash.

Well we'll disagree then, but I'm willing to concede to you if you say you watch Ryan a lot. With him out west I don't see as many games as I would need to to determine his true value, either to his team or what it would take to get him in a trade.

 

[bustaheims]

Well we'll disagree then, but I'm willing to concede to you if you say you watch Ryan a lot. With him out west I don't see as many games as I would need to to determine his true value, either to his team or what it would take to get him in a trade.

Probably out as much as I get to watch Nash, which, granted, isn't a ton, but enough to get a good feel for their respective games.

 

[Guilt Trip]

How do we know what value BB put on Carter? We don't, and we don't know what CBJ wanted from us for him, if the Leafs were even in on it.

Well, we know he turned down a potential Kulemin+Kadri for Carter deal in the summer, so, we can safely assume, he values Carter at less than that.

We don't know that....that was a rumour. Even so that doesn't show what he values Carter at. It tells me he didn't want to give up a....Kulemin, who scored 30 goals, was a 200ft player, and Kadri who was the top prospect in the system.

 

[bustaheims]

We don't know that....that was a rumour. Even so that doesn't show what he values Carter at. It tells me he didn't want to give up a....Kulemin, who scored 30 goals, was a 200ft player, and Kadri who was the top prospect in the system.

It was a rumour that came from the most legitimate of possible sources short of coming directly from the Leafs' front office. It may not be the gospel truth, but, it's close enough.

 

[cw]

Well we'll disagree then, but I'm willing to concede to you if you say you watch Ryan a lot. With him out west I don't see as many games as I would need to to determine his true value, either to his team or what it would take to get him in a trade.

Probably out as much as I get to watch Nash, which, granted, isn't a ton, but enough to get a good feel for their respective games.

I don't watch the western teams as much either. My impression is Getzlaf would be the most physical followed fairly closely by Nash & Ryan and then there would be a bit of a gap before Carter, who has never been known to throw his weight around or use his size as much as he might.

 

[Corn Flake]

Is there another available top 6 guy out there that you think he's got his sights on?

Well, as you mentioned, Brown and Nash. My guess is he's still trying to see if there's a deal to be made for Ryan. There's Ott, who's not really a top 6 guy, but adds the physical presence and has some offensive skills. Outside of that, who knows? One thing we've seen from Burke in his time with the Leafs is that he and his management group have been known to pull off deals under the radar.

How badly would you say he needs to pull off a deal like acquiring Brown or Nash this deadline?

I don't think its about the deadline... its about Toronto seizing an opportunity to acquire a top end player, of which they need at least one more up front to take the next step. Right now there is one top end player who is very available ... the first one all season.

None of the moves Burke makes should be driven by the next 2 months, other than a goalie to stabilize things.  He does that and the Leafs get in.  Nash or no Nash the offense isn't going to get the Leafs in but it sure could make a difference in how far they go both this year and the next several. 

 

[ontariojames]

Jack Johnson is a great example of "experts" and actual NHL coaches and GM's not being as good at analyzing a players talents as you would think, they clearly think he is much better than the numbers clearly show he is.

Yeah? Is that numbers plural or just plus/minus? His blocked shots numbers are actually pretty good. He gets credited with a decent amount of hits too.

And when he has had the worst +- on the team 4 years in a row and by far the worst +- for defencemen on the team the last two seasons does the fact that he has a good amount of blocked shots and hits really add much to his value or make him not awful defensively? Especially considering that the point of blocking shots is to keep the puck out of your net, which he clearly isn't very good at.

 

[Kin]

And when he has had the worst +- on the team 4 years in a row and by far the worst +- for defencemen on the team the last two seasons does the fact that he has a good amount of blocked shots and hits really add much to his value or make him not awful defensively?

I guess it would depend on how much stock you put in the +/- statistic. If you took it as bible law concerning a player's defensive abilities, then no. If you thought it was a horribly flawed statistic with limited value then, yeah, it would.

 

[Mack674]

MadFerrett, about the Burke on Carter thing - he has said on multiple occassions that he hates deals that circumvent the spirit of the CBA and the cap and everything and wants no part of them.

It is true, they do handicap the team for a long time as well, those deals are pretty ridiculous and youd better be damn sure about a player before you commit to something like that and I agree with Burke on the issue 100%.

Im sure that was a major factor.

 

[ontariojames]

And when he has had the worst +- on the team 4 years in a row and by far the worst +- for defencemen on the team the last two seasons does the fact that he has a good amount of blocked shots and hits really add much to his value or make him not awful defensively?

I guess it would depend on how much stock you put in the +/- statistic. If you took it as bible law concerning a player's defensive abilities, then no. If you thought it was a horribly flawed statistic with limited value then, yeah, it would.

If you want to try and claim that having the worst +- on your team 4 years in a row and the second worst in another year and having a career best of -12 right now and being a -21 last year on a very good team where the second worst dman had a -2 is merely just a coincidence, than be my guest. I have to say of all the people on here I'm the most surprised that you would try and make this ridiculous claim, this would seem to be the kind of thing you'd take a fellow poster to task on.

 

[Corn Flake]

MadFerrett, about the Burke on Carter thing - he has said on multiple occassions that he hates deals that circumvent the spirit of the CBA and the cap and everything and wants no part of them.

It is true, they do handicap the team for a long time as well, those deals are pretty ridiculous and youd better be damn sure about a player before you commit to something like that and I agree with Burke on the issue 100%.

Im sure that was a major factor.

True but I think his attitude and off-ice behavior at times may have been more of a factor than the contract.  Or, at least you could say the former led to the conclusion that the latter was not worth the risk.