Contracts for the Big-3

[Frank E]

Maybe he can try to make that argument, but there are guys drafted before he was that can hardly crack a roster yet, like Dal Colle and Fleury, so I'm not sure draft position at his age has much negotiation value.

I didn't say Ritchie's draft position has negotiation value. I said his draft position might contribute to Ritchie thinking he's better than he's shown so far. Which, again, is one of the reasons negotiations might have taken this long.

I appreciate that you've taken it upon yourself to constantly defend any and every position NHL management might take but "Yeah, I can see why negotiations have dragged out on this one" is not a pro-player position.

I love you, Nik, I really enjoy your posts, but I don't defend any and every NHL management position, just like I wouldn't ever say that you take a pro-player position any and every time.

I didn't accuse you of saying that Ritchie's hypothetical stance of using draft position in a negotiation would be of value.  I was simply arguing that IF he did, it probably wouldn't be of much value.

 

[Kin]

Also, fwiw, I've never said Nylander hasn't had an opportunity to prove his value. It's never really been about what he could have done or been but rather what he has done and what he is. What I've said, boiled down, has two major points:

1) That the things a player can do to create "value" in this sense are only partially within his control. Ice time, linemates, what position they play...all of these things influence output.

2) When looking at Nylander's output, there are ways to frame what he has done, what his value is, in many ways that would support arguments for a wide range of negotiating positions.

Generally speaking, as I've dug into things, I think the reports of what he's asking for look more and more in line with the league's established RFA salary structure(it's not a "market" in any real sense) when compared to people who think that he should be more towards what Ehlers got but I've never argued about what he "should" or "shouldn't" get.

 

[Kin]

I didn't accuse you of saying that Ritchie's hypothetical stance of using draft position in a negotiation would be of value.  I was simply arguing that IF he did, it probably wouldn't be of much value.

And, again, I never suggested he was bringing it up in negotiations even hypothetically, only that it might be something that was informing his sense of his own value.

Athletes, especially those like Ritchie, can have inflated senses of self-worth. That can prolong contract negotiations as whether salary should be about what a player has done or what he might do over the length of a contract is a matter of opinion rather than fact. I can't believe any of that reads as controversial to anyone.

 

[Zee]

Dartguy on Twitter says a major announcement is coming tonight. Yes I've stooped this to level

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Dartguy on Twitter says a major announcement is coming tonight. Yes I've stooped this to level

glurk.

 

[hockeyfan1]

The latest news on Nylander-Dubas contract impasse:

It is reported that GM Dubas favoured a bridge deal, but that the Nylander camp wants "Leon Drausaitl" money, translation.. big contract which involves long term deal.

Not that we haven't read anything before on this Nylander contract situation but it is also reported that if no bridge then Dubas' other option favours the $6M mark, as opposed to the Nylander camp's version.

http://betting101.com/nhl/nhl-teams/toronto-maple-leafs/dubas-nylander-playing-game-of-chicken

 

[hockeyfan1]

Swirling, swirling...

[tweet]1043610014580129792[/tweet]

Forget Faulk, keep Willy.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

It's probably just to announce he's being given 3 radio shows instead of just the 1.

 

[Zee]

It's probably just to announce he's being given 3 radio shows instead of just the 1.

He went from being a guy with face paint and unlit cigarette at a Leafs game to having his own radio show and now a hockey insider.  Great Canadian success story.

 

[Zee]

**Breaking News**

@TSN1050Radio has announced they have re-signed @LeafsMaz20 & @iamToddyTickles to 1 yr deals, details are undisclosed.

That?s right #LeafsNation the DartGuy and Todd Shapiro Show is back for season 2! Catch us Saturday?s from 3pm-5pm starting Oct.6th #DGTSS https://t.co/TFYBUx7rcq

 

[Kin]

One of the things we've heard a lot whenever the Draisaitl contract comes up is "why should the Leafs be bound by a contract one of their dumber competitors signs?" which is a little funny as the Owners entire economic model for the sport is one where what the Leafs are allowed to pay their players is directly related to the revenues their dumbest competitors are able to generate.

I'm sure they'll try to but I'm not having it both ways there would win in a debate.

 

[Stebro]

B?rje Salming will call Nylander to talk to him. Here's my take on it all:

Winning with the Maple Leafs is the biggest thing you can do in hockey right now. I can only speak for myself, but let's say I was a pro, then I would rather with the cup with the leafs than the olympics with Sweden. I hope that Nylander really gets how big it would be to win with the leafs, this is what I think that B?rje will tell him. Ideally he would sign a shorter contract to make sure that Marleau will retire and free up some cap space. Another thing I think people should consider is that Kadri and Nylander have similar point production and Kadri more goals, how will Kadri react if Nylander gets a lot more? Imo Nylander should get 5,5-6,25 million per season.

 

[Kin]

Another thing I think people should consider is that Kadri and Nylander have similar point production and Kadri more goals, how will Kadri react if Nylander gets a lot more? Imo Nylander should get 5,5-6,25 million per season.

That's not really the way things work though. Kadri signed his deal when he was about to turn 26 after a couple years where he wasn't producing much. Nylander's deal will be when he's 22 and has produced significantly better.

Kadri's improved as a player which benefits the team but I don't think Kadri would have any reason to react badly to a player in a very different situation signing a more lucrative deal than he did.

 

[Stebro]

Another thing I think people should consider is that Kadri and Nylander have similar point production and Kadri more goals, how will Kadri react if Nylander gets a lot more? Imo Nylander should get 5,5-6,25 million per season.

That's not really the way things work though. Kadri signed his deal when he was about to turn 26 after a couple years where he wasn't producing much. Nylander's deal will be when he's 22 and has produced significantly better.

Kadri's improved as a player which benefits the team but I don't think Kadri would have any reason to react badly to a player in a very different situation signing a more lucrative deal than he did.

Yeah, looking at it now the Kadri-contract is great, but I doubt that Kadri will be all that happy if Nylander were to get 8 million per season, although he wont, because he doesn't deserve it. The Nylander contract will also send a message to Marner and Matthews, so I think it's wise to be careful which is what Dubas is doing. If it's true that the Nylander camp has asked close to 8 million per season they're just......

 

[Kin]

Yeah, looking at it now the Kadri-contract is great, but I doubt that Kadri will be all that happy if Nylander were to get 8 million per season, although he wont, because he doesn't deserve it.

If Kadri resents a younger, better player than he was signing a more lucrative deal than he did...that really says something much worse about Kadri than anything else.

As 8 million per as a potential deal...I've done the big math-heavy posts on that. There are lots of comparable deals and some support a 7.5-8 million dollar ask.

 

[Zee]

Why don't RFA's use offer sheets? I'm sure the agent could get it out there that his client would be willing to sign an offer sheet with another team if one is presented. If someone offers $8M Nylander gets what he wanted even if the Leafs match.

 

[mr grieves]

Why don't RFA's use offer sheets? I'm sure the agent could get it out there that his client would be willing to sign an offer sheet with another team if one is presented. If someone offers $8M Nylander gets what he wanted even if the Leafs match.

Yeah, I've wondered about this too.
If I were an agent looking to get the best deal for my player, I'd do this.
If I were another team looking to make a rival club sweat, I'd do this.
Probably comes down to way GMs collude to keep salaries low.

 

[Kin]

Yeah, I've wondered about this too.
If I were an agent looking to get the best deal for my player, I'd do this.
If I were another team looking to make a rival club sweat, I'd do this.
Probably comes down to way GMs collude to keep salaries low.

Because compensation is too low. In order for an offer sheet to have any real chance of succeeding they basically have to make the compensation more valuable than the player they're signing.

That's more or less impossible to do. Look around the league and find a young player who you'd sign to a deal between 6-8 million who isn't worth more than a 1st, 2nd or 3rd. Or between 8-10 million who isn't worth more than two 1sts and a 3rd. The real effect of offer sheets being common is that few players would actually change teams but the price of RFAs would go up for everyone.

Effectively, saying you'd do it as a GM is either saying you'd drive up the price of your own RFAs for no real benefit or it's saying you'd be out there signing RFAs to salaries they can't justify to put pressure on other teams. Regardless, you probably wouldn't be GMing for long.

 

[sickbeast]

Wouldn't the Leafs have to get draft pick compensation if Nylander signs somewhere else?  That could be the deterrent for other teams right there.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

Wouldn't the Leafs have to get draft pick compensation if Nylander signs somewhere else?  That could be the deterrent for other teams right there.

$1,339,575 or less           No compensation
$1,339,576 to $2,029,659   Third-round pick
$2,029,660 to $4,059,322   Second-round pick
$4,059,323 to $6,088,980   First and third-round picks
$6,088,981 to $8,118,641   First, second and third-round picks
$8,118,642 to $10,148,302  Two firsts, a second and third-round picks
Over $10,148,302           Four first-round picks