Contracts for the Big-3

[disco]

It's a little bit of a tough reality that Willy is 4th on the superstar depth chart and a winger and he's going first of the Big-3. I was thinking the other day about Jonathan Drouin and the Bolts. He later said sitting out was a mistake by him. He later got a good contract but he's playing for the Montreal Canadiens.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

How is he not worth $7M?

Though I understand everyone's human, I'm skeptical about how much the Leafs current performance has on any negotiations.

If Leafs wait until after October 15th they can give him 7x7 and the cap hit for subsequent years is lower than 7

I think that would be the best scenario for all. Nylander gets a contract starting with a 7, which in all honesty I don't think dubas is really that far from anyway (or should be), the leafs get a cap hit starting with a 6, everyone saves face, Herman can stop playing the Smiths and staring at Nylander posters in his room, and we get back to the on-ice product.

And mgt works on a Marner 8M and Matthews at 12M in-season.

There, we solved all of the issues. No payment needed from Leafs, just set the board here in the alumni suite for the first home game with Nylander in the lineup.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

The money Nylander loses will need to be made up to him:

...when a deal is finally concluded ? say it?s $7.5-million for seven years, the AAV is going to have to be bumped up to make him whole for the salary he?s not collecting at the moment. Take that $7.5-million and make it $7.85-million.

I like Dellow, but, uh, this is dumb and definitely not going to happen.

 

[Kin]

I like Dellow, but, uh, this is dumb and definitely not going to happen.

Yeah, if nothing else the same thing could be accomplished by structuring bonus money differently with no cap consequences.

 

[Kin]

If Leafs wait until after October 15th they can give him 7x7 and the cap hit for subsequent years is lower than 7

I think that would be the best scenario for all. Nylander gets a contract starting with a 7, which in all honesty I don't think dubas is really that far from anyway (or should be), the leafs get a cap hit starting with a 6, everyone saves face, Herman can stop playing the Smiths and staring at Nylander posters in his room, and we get back to the on-ice product.

And mgt works on a Marner 8M and Matthews at 12M in-season.

There, we solved all of the issues. No payment needed from Leafs, just set the board here in the alumni suite for the first home game with Nylander in the lineup.

I would very much question Dubas' judgement if 7x7 was a workable deal and they simply sat it out this long for the tiny, insignificant cap savings we're talking about.

 

[lc9]

I don?t mind Nylander holding out.  I?m with Dubas on this one though. Leafs have 3 players that need contracts, on the list of importantance Nylander is last, his leverage isn?t great.  Leafs will be fine without him for the time being and can afford to wait.  I appreciate that Nylander wants to get paid, but at the end of the day, it?s more important for the leafs to have some cap flexibility. 

If Nylander doesn?t eventually give in, then you trade him.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I would very much question Dubas' judgement if 7x7 was a workable deal and they simply sat it out this long for the tiny, insignificant cap savings we're talking about.

If I'm not mistaken, you're already questioning Dubas' judgement.

 

[Kin]

I would very much question Dubas' judgement if 7x7 was a workable deal and they simply sat it out this long for the tiny, insignificant cap savings we're talking about.

If I'm not mistaken, you're already questioning Dubas' judgement.

Unless I'm forgetting something I don't think I have.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I would very much question Dubas' judgement if 7x7 was a workable deal and they simply sat it out this long for the tiny, insignificant cap savings we're talking about.

If I'm not mistaken, you're already questioning Dubas' judgement.

Unless I'm forgetting something I don't think I have.

To continue in my series of extremely mild criticisms, I think it really sucks that Nylander isn't signed and that it represents a mistake on management's part.

You think it sucks that it represents a mistake, or you think it represents a mistake?

Both.

 

[Zee]

If Leafs wait until after October 15th they can give him 7x7 and the cap hit for subsequent years is lower than 7

I think that would be the best scenario for all. Nylander gets a contract starting with a 7, which in all honesty I don't think dubas is really that far from anyway (or should be), the leafs get a cap hit starting with a 6, everyone saves face, Herman can stop playing the Smiths and staring at Nylander posters in his room, and we get back to the on-ice product.

And mgt works on a Marner 8M and Matthews at 12M in-season.

There, we solved all of the issues. No payment needed from Leafs, just set the board here in the alumni suite for the first home game with Nylander in the lineup.

I would very much question Dubas' judgement if 7x7 was a workable deal and they simply sat it out this long for the tiny, insignificant cap savings we're talking about.

Well depends on how long they wait. Do they really need Nylander in the first 30 games or so? The entire season is about getting ready for the playoffs. If they wait until December 1st and give him 7x7, the subsequent cap hits are only 6.68 or something like that. Not insignificant in that case.

 

[Kin]

Yeah, I don't necessarily think a mistake is the result of bad judgement.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Yeah, I don't necessarily think a mistake is the result of bad judgement.

You know, it wouldn't be the end of the world if you simply acknowleged it when you're so obviously caught out. It's a mark of character, not a flaw.

 

[Kin]

Well depends on how long they wait. Do they really need Nylander in the first 30 games or so? The entire season is about getting ready for the playoffs.

And part of that is putting yourself in good playoff seeding. A few points here or there might not mean the difference between making the playoffs or not but it can absolutely be the difference between who you face in the playoffs.

And, yeah, I'd still consider half of a minimum salary player to be relatively insignificant in the grand scheme of things cap wise. You're talking about .4% of the cap at most.

 

[Kin]

You know, it wouldn't be the end of the world if you simply acknowleged it when you're so obviously caught out. It's a mark of character, not a flaw.

And when I am, I do. This is just a situation where I've got a better handle on what I think than you do.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

You know, it wouldn't be the end of the world if you simply acknowleged it when you're so obviously caught out. It's a mark of character, not a flaw.

And when I am, I do. This is just a situation where I've got a better handle on what I think than you do.

Nope, not going to let you have this one, because you'd never have the decency to let someone else in the same scenario.

 

[Zee]

Well depends on how long they wait. Do they really need Nylander in the first 30 games or so? The entire season is about getting ready for the playoffs.

And part of that is putting yourself in good playoff seeding. A few points here or there might not mean the difference between making the playoffs or not but it can absolutely be the difference between who you face in the playoffs.

And, yeah, I'd still consider half of a minimum salary player to be relatively insignificant in the grand scheme of things cap wise. You're talking about .4% of the cap at most.

It all adds up. Leafs will only have played 13 games by November 1st, why not play it by ear and see how the team is doing. If they get along fine without Nylander they learn to play while missing guys in the future due to injury or what not.  Then once Nylander gets back you inject more skill and team gets a boost. As long as the Leafs are winning games I don't see this as an issue, in fact it's a benefit

 

[Kin]

Nope, not going to let you have this one, because you'd never have the decency to let someone else in the same scenario.

So, in service of this relatively minor point, you're going to continue to say that you have a better idea than I do about what I meant by "mistake"?

Hey, if that's what you want to spend your afternoon talking about, sure. Let's play "Does Nik know the dictionary?". I'm sure it'll be thrilling for all involved.

 

[rdowdall]

Well depends on how long they wait. Do they really need Nylander in the first 30 games or so? The entire season is about getting ready for the playoffs.

And part of that is putting yourself in good playoff seeding. A few points here or there might not mean the difference between making the playoffs or not but it can absolutely be the difference between who you face in the playoffs.

And, yeah, I'd still consider half of a minimum salary player to be relatively insignificant in the grand scheme of things cap wise. You're talking about .4% of the cap at most.

It all adds up. Leafs will only have played 13 games by November 1st, why not play it by ear and see how the team is doing. If they get along fine without Nylander they learn to play while missing guys in the future due to injury or what not.  Then once Nylander gets back you inject more skill and team gets a boost. As long as the Leafs are winning games I don't see this as an issue, in fact it's a benefit

The only downside is that Nylander might be half a step behind for the first little bit when he comes in.  He'll be in shape, but he'll still have to get some reps in before he is back to full strength, but I think that is something that is offset by him maybe being fresher down the stretch.

 

[Kin]

It all adds up. Leafs will only have played 13 games by November 1st, why not play it by ear and see how the team is doing. If they get along fine without Nylander they learn to play while missing guys in the future due to injury or what not.  Then once Nylander gets back you inject more skill and team gets a boost. As long as the Leafs are winning games I don't see this as an issue, in fact it's a benefit

That raises the issue of what "fine" is in context. Is it maintaining a playoff spot? Staying ahead of Tampa? Challenging for 1st in the conference? Because I think most of us were kind of hoping that the Leafs could make some real noise this year and that's why a few points here or there could be significant things. If home ice advantage is determined in the 2nd or 3rd round by the Leafs either winning or losing a few points in the early months, I think that's a pretty terrible gamble.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Nope, not going to let you have this one, because you'd never have the decency to let someone else in the same scenario.

So, in service of this relatively minor point, you're going to continue to say that you have a better idea than I do about what I meant by "mistake"?

Hey, if that's what you want to spend your afternoon talking about, sure. Let's play "Does Nik know the dictionary?". I'm sure it'll be thrilling for all involved.

No, I'm not going to help you self-validate, no matter how long you drag it out. You can only be the authority if people cede to it. You'll realize it's a favour at some point down the line.