Contracts for the Big-3
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disco
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Dappleganger said:
haha I know. for the next 6-8 years a bunch of guys are going to be coming up through the ranks and playing wing on Matthews' and Tavares' lines and putting up the points, then eventually price themselves out of range. Heck, we haven't won a round yet and it's already here with the Big-3. Willy sitting out for his payday and Kappy reaping the rewards.
Alright, so we're at game 5 of the sit-out. I'm guessing Pasternak money is unacceptable for the Gross camp. And $6.75 x 8 years would be a good solid contract that other teams might really like, same as the Leafs. I'm also guessing both camps hate the bridge. Poor asset management perhaps for Dubas. Does this thing go into November and then the deadline in December? Will they eventually settle on a bridge?
A good agent will not just squeeze as much money for his client, but will represent his goals and priorities to the best of his ability. If maxing out is his first, second and third priority, maybe that's where they are. If Willy wants a fair contract but also DOES NOT want to spend his prime on a Carolina or Florida but challenge for Cups continually here, he needs to tell his agent that.
https://twitter.com/timandsid/status/1050412927268745216
Kin
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Bullfrog said:
I'm not going to click through but to give the benefit of the doubt to Friedman he may be using "roll up your sleeves" to effectively mean bite the bullet and just give Matthews what he wants.
Obviously I don't know to what extent Dubas may be willing to use his Nylander negotiating strategy to try and get Matthews or Marner to sign more team-friendly contracts but assuming he doesn't want to go that route with Matthews you could argue that every day that Matthews is unsigned but playing like he is is another day of Matthews feeling emboldened to go after the NHL's highest salary.
The McDavid deal got done as quickly as it did because the Oilers were willing to give McDavid what he wanted. The Leafs may want to do the same with Matthews.
There's been talk about what a roster would look like if none of the big-3 took discounts to re-sign here. @billius27 threw together a potential line-up to show what that could look like:
I'd put Marner's number at $9.5 and Nylander's at $8mil, but it still works out the same. Horton's been LTIR'd, Kessel's retention is there, and it assumes no overages from this current season.
Obviously, the roster is pretty darn top heavy, but that was going to be the case regardless of what happens. The big loss here is Gardiner, but there really wouldn't be any chance of re-signing him without other moves even if Nylander comes in $1-1.5mil less than that and Matthews/Marner's numbers are a smidge lower.
Really though the contract that is mucking up the works here is Marleau's. If the Leafs are able to do something about that (and the structure of his deal makes that possible, but it'll be completely up to Marleau) then they'll definitely have room to either try and get Gardiner re-signed or improve the defence in other ways. If Marleau decides to play out his 3rd year here, then we're forced to go with a budget defence for 19/20 and things will open up a little bit after that.
I'd put Marner's number at $9.5 and Nylander's at $8mil, but it still works out the same. Horton's been LTIR'd, Kessel's retention is there, and it assumes no overages from this current season.
Obviously, the roster is pretty darn top heavy, but that was going to be the case regardless of what happens. The big loss here is Gardiner, but there really wouldn't be any chance of re-signing him without other moves even if Nylander comes in $1-1.5mil less than that and Matthews/Marner's numbers are a smidge lower.
Really though the contract that is mucking up the works here is Marleau's. If the Leafs are able to do something about that (and the structure of his deal makes that possible, but it'll be completely up to Marleau) then they'll definitely have room to either try and get Gardiner re-signed or improve the defence in other ways. If Marleau decides to play out his 3rd year here, then we're forced to go with a budget defence for 19/20 and things will open up a little bit after that.
Kin
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I was going to say it in the game day thread but in reference to the above, it's still tricky even if the Leafs pull off the unlikely and trade Nylander for a very good defenseman. I don't know what people think Trouba might sign for but even at 3 million less than what Nylander signs for(which is ridiculous) it doesn't make signing Gardiner any more practical.
Zee
Active member
CarltonTheBear said:There's been talk about what a roster would look like if none of the big-3 took discounts to re-sign here. @billius27 threw together a potential line-up to show what that could look like:
I'd put Marner's number at $9.5 and Nylander's at $8mil, but it still works out the same. Horton's been LTIR'd, Kessel's retention is there, and it assumes no overages from this current season.
Obviously, the roster is pretty darn top heavy, but that was going to be the case regardless of what happens. The big loss here is Gardiner, but there really wouldn't be any chance of re-signing him without other moves even if Nylander comes in $1-1.5mil less than that and Matthews/Marner's numbers are a smidge lower.
Really though the contract that is mucking up the works here is Marleau's. If the Leafs are able to do something about that (and the structure of his deal makes that possible, but it'll be completely up to Marleau) then they'll definitely have room to either try and get Gardiner re-signed or improve the defence in other ways. If Marleau decides to play out his 3rd year here, then we're forced to go with a budget defence for 19/20 and things will open up a little bit after that.
I think Marleau would be happier to move on if the Leafs win the Cup this season. He gets his Cup, Leafs trade him back to SJ so he can retire a Shark.
Zee said:
Yeah I do think that if Marleau wins the Cup this season he'll be happy going out on top. But if he doesn't, I think he'll be very motivated still to try one more time... even if the original plan was to consider retirement in year 3.
CarltonTheBear said:There's been talk about what a roster would look like if none of the big-3 took discounts to re-sign here. @billius27 threw together a potential line-up to show what that could look like:
I'd put Marner's number at $9.5 and Nylander's at $8mil, but it still works out the same. Horton's been LTIR'd, Kessel's retention is there, and it assumes no overages from this current season.
Obviously, the roster is pretty darn top heavy, but that was going to be the case regardless of what happens. The big loss here is Gardiner, but there really wouldn't be any chance of re-signing him without other moves even if Nylander comes in $1-1.5mil less than that and Matthews/Marner's numbers are a smidge lower.
Really though the contract that is mucking up the works here is Marleau's. If the Leafs are able to do something about that (and the structure of his deal makes that possible, but it'll be completely up to Marleau) then they'll definitely have room to either try and get Gardiner re-signed or improve the defence in other ways. If Marleau decides to play out his 3rd year here, then we're forced to go with a budget defence for 19/20 and things will open up a little bit after that.
Thanks for this. So, it looks to me like holding each guy to a million less and buying out Marleau (assuming he is still around) may save enough to pay Gardiner (depending on his ask) or some other decent defenseman 5-6 million while subbing in a generic million-dollar forward.
princedpw said:
Since he's a 35+ contract, buying out Marleau wouldn't have any effect on the cap. The 3rd year of that contract really cripples us. Again if somebody wants to point any fingers at a specific contract for hurting our cap situation this is the one. I almost wonder if the Leafs would have been better off just overpaying him even more than they already did on a 2-year deal instead.
herman
Well-known member
CarltonTheBear said:
I think the 3rd year is what got him to uproot his family to move here (i.e. 3 years for his kids in the GTHL). It would take a very very very disastrous coincidence for him to move back now (let's say the Leafs super promising season is wiped out really early on this year, while San Jose wracks up a very strong run with Karlsson).
disco
New member
Just thinking about the exodus of scoring wingers by boss Chiarelli in Edmonton. They had Hall and Eberle I believe on their 6x6 deals. Both now gone and they could really use scoring. When I preach strength down the middle with number-one centers and money for D and G, I certainly don't make light of the serious need for dynamic wingers. I just think that contending cap-teams can only really afford to splurge on one of them, and it looks like it'll be Mitchy more than Willy.
L K
Active member
Nik the Trik said:caveman said:salary cap....sux....
I tried telling people this. I really did. Even that it would be especially bad for the Leafs.
But man, you should have seen the concern around here for Geoff Molson's bank account.
The greedy player argument is still amusing to me in the context of billionaires. If the Leafs got to pay players 50% less they sure as hell aren't reducing ticket prices.
dappleganger
Active member
disco said:
I think that's true. If you have Willy and Mitch it means you don't have that $8m guy patrolling the blue line.
Hopefully the $3m dman there can play some solid D.
hockeyfan1
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Nylander has stated in an article that he wants a long term contract (apparently meaning that he intends to remain a Leaf for long). As it has been mentioned in print and in the media, the Nylander camp is seeking in the $8M+ long-term range. Nylander is not eligible for a NTC until he's in his UFA year. Knowing this, Nylander seeks longevity and security with a hefty price tag. Hefty to the Leafs considering they will need to sign up Matthews and Marner next summer.
Since the salaries are set to rise again all things considered, and knowing this, Nylander wants maximum value out of the contract (in other words $6.5 to $7M will not do when he could in theory have gotten more).
Also, the idea of trading Nylander may not be as easily said and done -- teams may want the Leafs to sign him up -- even a bridge deal for less -- so that their cap hit in acquiring him will not be too deep.
Since the salaries are set to rise again all things considered, and knowing this, Nylander wants maximum value out of the contract (in other words $6.5 to $7M will not do when he could in theory have gotten more).
Also, the idea of trading Nylander may not be as easily said and done -- teams may want the Leafs to sign him up -- even a bridge deal for less -- so that their cap hit in acquiring him will not be too deep.
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