Coronavirus
- Thread starter Highlander
- Start date
Peter D.
Moderator
Nik said:
I agree and get that. But what are stronger vaccine mandates that can be imposed? (I'm generally curious because I am stumped as to how to go about doing it)
A bunch of jobs (school boards for one) aren't going to follow through with it because of the shortage it'll create. Continually rolling things back and imposing restrictions just punishes people already double and triple vaccinated (I'm dead set against the majority of these new restrictions set to be announced), and if anything, allows the unvaccinated to draw their line in the sand even deeper in having absolutely no incentive to get vaccinated.
Kin
New member
Peter D. said:
I mean, off the top of my head...I know a lot of the Delta-era restrictions were about having proof of vaccination "or a negative test" and you could just go to straight up only vaccinations. You could make proof of vaccination mandatory for public transit, for air travel, for kids to go to school, for admission into hospital to visit sick relatives...I'm not necessarily saying I'd advocate any or all of those measures but there were certainly ways to do it.
L K
Active member
I'm just an N of 1 here but in general the thing that has frustrated me more about the vaxx/non-vaxxed population is that I can almost draw a perfect line between the "was an asshole to my nursing colleagues" and vaccination status. That's what has been frustrating to me. I don't want to go down the "should we refuse treatment to anti-vaxx" discussion because I think it is a slippery slope that goes against medical oaths but I do think there should be som real consequences put in place for people who are verbally and physically abusive toward health care teams.
We moved away from paternalistic medicine years ago because it was the wrong approach. It's time to move away from the "it's ok to be a jerk because they are stressed/sick" argument. I've been sick. I didn't hit anyone. It's a garbage argument.
We moved away from paternalistic medicine years ago because it was the wrong approach. It's time to move away from the "it's ok to be a jerk because they are stressed/sick" argument. I've been sick. I didn't hit anyone. It's a garbage argument.
Peter D. said:
Updating the passports to reflect that having two doses does not make you "fully vaccinated" anymore seems like the logicial start. Hopefully we can get more boosters in arms over the next month and these things can open up like that.
L K
Active member
Nik said:
If there is a right way to do it, Ford has done it the opposite for the entire pandemic. It's just frustrating. But hey, my completely burned out nursing colleagues can now try and find last minute child care to work their 10 overtime shifts a month to keep the ER open. So that's cool I guess.
Isn't the issue though that the vast majority of hospitalizations are in unvaxxed? If that's the case then these restrictions are coming more or less due to their dogmatism against vaccination that ends up taking a run at hospitals and staff etc., which is having knock on effects like school closures (although the govt isn't doing a ton to protect kids) and delayed surgeries. At some point I don't see how you can avoid making that kind of a choice.L K said:
I'm against the restrictions in the same sense that you are but unfortunately we've let things get out of hand yet again and everyone has to take a hit, which is pretty brutal. Generally the stats I've seen is most hospitalizations are in the unvaxxed, and this is what's driving restrictions as hospital numbers and icu numbers pile up. I don't know what this looks like but we can't keep letting 15% take runs on our health care system that lead to these kinds of restrictions.Peter D. said:
Frank E
Active member
Some interesting data analysis here from this doctor in the UK...he has a way of recapping studies that makes it a little easier to understand:
https://youtu.be/jTftlM0MJUk
A couple of major points:
1. Getting Delta doesn't protect you well from getting Omicron, but getting Omicron protects you from getting delta.
2. He also talks about the T-cell response being partly responsible for the lack of serious illness even if you catch it.
https://youtu.be/jTftlM0MJUk
A couple of major points:
1. Getting Delta doesn't protect you well from getting Omicron, but getting Omicron protects you from getting delta.
2. He also talks about the T-cell response being partly responsible for the lack of serious illness even if you catch it.
OldTimeHockey
Active member
Bender said:
Pretty sure it was a "data analysis"
There isn't really any evidence that Omicron is the one that will lead to endemicity just as we saw with all the variants that came before. I'll listen to what he has to say but I've heard endemicity talked about repeatedly and if there's anything I've learned it's that we have been pretty bad at predicting herd immunity and endemicity.OldTimeHockey said:
Herd immunity has been talked about since the beginning.Deebo said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.onmanorama.com/lifestyle/health/2021/09/24/covid-will-end-with-delta-fda.html
And I just googled that in 2 seconds. Even so, that's not the main point. The point is we don't know exactly where this is going, just like most didn't really predict Omicron (although there were many out there that said a more transmissible variant with immune escape is possible), but that's kind of the point. We just don't know yet.