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Coronavirus

Nik Bethune said:
I really try hard not to present the people  I disagree with politically as being cartoonishly evil but the number of people out there right now arguing that we should be willing to accept thousands of deaths so that damage to a certain section of the economy(and, to be fair, just the financial sector) is contained is really making that hard to do.

The irony is that so many of these same people scream how abortions are murder (though, in a lot of cases, I?m sure that?s just to get votes), and now they?re basically advocating for actual murder.

This guy, on the other hand... https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/24/us/louisiana-pastor-spell-coronavirus/index.html
 
My largest frustration and is part of why we are all in the pickle we are in now, is that not one government picked up on the message's that were being sent out by so many experts like noted Epidemiologist Larry Brilliant who forewarned of this disaster in a TED talk 14 years ago, or like Bill Gates who said exactly the same things in his TED talk in 2015.  Gate's even used graphics that showed what looks exactly what a Coronavirus looks like in his talk, as well as the need to stockpile, huge amounts of N-95 masks, shields, gloves, beds and ventilators.
Strange how we spend so much money on military goods but almost nothing to prepare for the invisible war that Trump keeps referring to.

Imagine if the entire world was not scrambling for Ventilators, masks, beds etc.  Perhaps the need to stretch out the bell curve wouldn't have been necessary or SO necessary, as we would have had the resources in place to deal with the outbreak.
Currently we are hunkered down, isolating and social distancing ourselves  while we buy time for Ford, Tesla and other mega corps to manufacture the equipment we need to save society and buy ourselves some time to develop a vaccine or some other treatment to stem the tide of this scourge.
I am so pissed that we were not prepared in Canada.  Now we are spending almost 90 billion to bail ourselves out.  Perhaps 5 or 6 billion spent over the last 10 years would have spared us all a lot of grief and suffering.
 
It would certainly have been more than a 5 or 6 billion a year expense but yes, we are facing the realities of an underfunded health care system. 

I don't work for LHSC anymore but that is where I did my training.

2018/2019 - 800,458 Ambulatory/Outpatient Visits, 165,824 ER Visits, 388,766 Admission Days  - 912 Physician, 3820 Nurses, 2321 Corporate/Management
2017/2018 - 790,720 Ambulatory/Outpatient Visits, 165,239 ER Visits, 370,310 Admission Days  - 912 Physician, 3744 Nurses, 2297 Corporate/Management
2016/2017 - 787,709 Ambulatory/Outpatient Visits, 163,369 ER Visits, 350,514 Admission Days  - 888 Physician, 3588 Nurses, 2277 Corporate/Management
2015/2016 - 773,084 Ambulatory/Outpatient Visits, 159,028 ER Visits, 328,032 Admission Days  - 873 Physician, 3622 Nurses, 2302 Corporate/Management
2014/2015 - 753,630 Ambulatory/Outpatient Visits, 150,649 ER Visits, 357,808 Admission Days  - 858 Physician, 3730 Nurses, 2416 Corporate/Management

Volumes go up, patient sickness goes up, support line staff plateau.  We have been chipping away at our health care over the last decade.  Cuts to outpatient services.  Paltry mental health supports.  Limits to beds.  Having hospitals running at >100% capacity for years with no concerns from the public at large outside of when your loved one sits in the ER for days waiting for an inpatient bed.

We could manufacture 1000 vents today.  The problem is in 6 months we won't really need them.  They will sit idly and fall into disrepair.  There would be a much better approach to having the WHO create an international epidemic/pandemic response unit that could house a mobile ICU that could be transitioned to other regions as required. 

We also could add hundred of beds to the country but we also need to see staffing improve accordingly.  When I started working you would typically have 4 patients to a nurse on average.  Now it is routinely running 8-9 patients/nurse in a lot of situations because of staffing cuts.
 
Highlander said:
My largest frustration and is part of why we are all in the pickle we are in now, is that not one government picked up on the message's that were being sent out by so many experts like noted Epidemiologist Larry Brilliant who forewarned of this disaster in a TED talk 14 years ago, or like Bill Gates who said exactly the same things in his TED talk in 2015.  Gate's even used graphics that showed what looks exactly what a Coronavirus looks like in his talk, as well as the need to stockpile, huge amounts of N-95 masks, shields, gloves, beds and ventilators.
Strange how we spend so much money on military goods but almost nothing to prepare for the invisible war that Trump keeps referring to.

Imagine if the entire world was not scrambling for Ventilators, masks, beds etc.  Perhaps the need to stretch out the bell curve wouldn't have been necessary or SO necessary, as we would have had the resources in place to deal with the outbreak.
Currently we are hunkered down, isolating and social distancing ourselves  while we buy time for Ford, Tesla and other mega corps to manufacture the equipment we need to save society and buy ourselves some time to develop a vaccine or some other treatment to stem the tide of this scourge.
I am so pissed that we were not prepared in Canada.  Now we are spending almost 90 billion to bail ourselves out.  Perhaps 5 or 6 billion spent over the last 10 years would have spared us all a lot of grief and suffering.

I'm no expert, but my first thought is if we could have prepped for a virus like this, aren't there a 100 other things we could be prepping for too?
 
Bill_Berg said:
I'm no expert, but my first thought is if we could have prepped for a virus like this, aren't there a 100 other things we could be prepping for too?

True, there are lots of things we could be prepping for. The difference between this one and most of the others is that we've experienced two pretty serious coronavirus epidemics in relatively recent history (SARS and MERS), as well as a number of influenza outbreaks with similar symptoms/potential complications. While we may not have been able to predict this specific outbreak, the world could definitely have been better prepared in terms of having the right equipment, staffing, etc., to deal with it.
 
bustaheims said:
True, there are lots of things we could be prepping for. The difference between this one and most of the others is that we've experienced two pretty serious coronavirus epidemics in relatively recent history (SARS and MERS), as well as a number of influenza outbreaks with similar symptoms/potential complications. While we may not have been able to predict this specific outbreak, the world could definitely have been better prepared in terms of having the right equipment, staffing, etc., to deal with it.

But I think you know as well as any of us that MERS and SARS would have been used by certain people to "prove" that we don't need special precautions because they were relatively contained.

I don't want this thread to spiral outright into politics but this particular provincial government came to power and did away with the green energy tax credit and cancelled a fully funded study into a UBI. Those policies directly spoke to two other serious issues we're probably going to have to face as a community in terms of climate change and the automation of the workforce. They also have smart people giving Ted talks about them and experts telling us we need to prepare.

So I agree. It is a shame that society has seen huge gains in wealth over the last generation and by and large has used those gains in the least productive, least beneficial way possible by diverting as much of it as possible into the pockets of a select few. But until there's real appetite for change to really proactively address the issues on the agenda, I don't know if it's right to pick off one when it's too late and say "See, we should have done X, Y and Z"
 
Nik Bethune said:
bustaheims said:
True, there are lots of things we could be prepping for. The difference between this one and most of the others is that we've experienced two pretty serious coronavirus epidemics in relatively recent history (SARS and MERS), as well as a number of influenza outbreaks with similar symptoms/potential complications. While we may not have been able to predict this specific outbreak, the world could definitely have been better prepared in terms of having the right equipment, staffing, etc., to deal with it.

But I think you know as well as any of us that MERS and SARS would have been used by certain people to "prove" that we don't need special precautions because they were relatively contained.

I thought I read that they did stock up on N95 masks but I could be mistaken. I'll see what I can find.
 
OldTimeHockey said:
Nik Bethune said:
bustaheims said:
True, there are lots of things we could be prepping for. The difference between this one and most of the others is that we've experienced two pretty serious coronavirus epidemics in relatively recent history (SARS and MERS), as well as a number of influenza outbreaks with similar symptoms/potential complications. While we may not have been able to predict this specific outbreak, the world could definitely have been better prepared in terms of having the right equipment, staffing, etc., to deal with it.

But I think you know as well as any of us that MERS and SARS would have been used by certain people to "prove" that we don't need special precautions because they were relatively contained.

I thought I read that they did stock up on N95 masks but I could be mistaken. I'll see what I can find.

Yup, 55 million masks stocked up. They're all expired.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/ontario-stockpiled-millions-of-masks-after-sars-they-all-expired-as-covid-19-nears-pandemic-status
 
Re:  Influenza (the flu) vaccine not proven very effective on those 65 or older study shows.  Not exactly surprising as researchers awhile ago sounded out on flu vaccinations for older people.

Conclusion:
Current vaccination strategies prioritizing elderly persons may be less effective than believed at reducing serious morbidity and mortality in this population, which suggests that supplementary strategies may be necessary.


https://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/2762506/effect-influenza-vaccination-elderly-hospitalization-mortality-observational-study-regression-discontinuity
 
Did you actually read the article because your conclusion and what the authors advocate and discuss are not remotely in line with where you are trying to peddle it
 
As we all know, all non essential business have been forced to close down, leaving many small business without income of any sort.  A good friend of mine in Collingwood is trying to do his part in helping business's that have no online commerce attain a site if they so wish and be ready to open their door/portal for sales in just 7 days.  If you know of anyone this can help by all means please pass it on. If anyone has any further questions please private message me. I appreciate that this is not normal protocol on this site, but these are not normal times.  We all have to try and help each other;

https://www.vywebdesign.com/small-businesses-fight-back-against-covid-19-2
 
L K said:
Did you actually read the article because your conclusion and what the authors advocate and discuss are not remotely in line with where you are trying to peddle it

Just what misinterpretation are you alluding to?


The conclusion at the end of the article concludes and summaries the findings of the observational study.  The conclusion speaks for itself.
 
Some encouraging news (from B.C.):

Health officials say physical distancing restrictions in B.C. are successfully beginning to slow the number of new COVID-19 cases in the province, perhaps by as much as half.

But despite the "glimmer of hope," provincial health officer Dr. Bonnie Henry and other officials stressed that the province is not out of the woods and the health-care system still needs to be prepared for an inevitable surge in hospitalizations.

"I'm trying not to over-call it, but I do believe we've seen a flattening, a falling-off of that curve," Henry said Friday, referring to the growth of new COVID-19 patients in B.C.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/covid-19-bc-modelling-numbers-dr-bonnie-henry-1.5512269
 
hockeyfan1 said:
L K said:
Did you actually read the article because your conclusion and what the authors advocate and discuss are not remotely in line with where you are trying to peddle it

Just what misinterpretation are you alluding to?


The conclusion at the end of the article concludes and summaries the findings of the observational study.  The conclusion speaks for itself.

If I'm reading the article correctly, the vitamin injections are being used to treat a byproduct of the infection in the very ill -sepsis. It's not being used as any other benefit that I could ascertain, and yet it takes careful reading past the sensationalist headlines to actually get any valid information.

It's these sort of articles that infuriates me, because they're manipulative, and often quoted with an agenda.
 
hockeyfan1 said:
Some encouraging news (from B.C.):

Health officials say physical distancing restrictions in B.C. are successfully beginning to slow the number of new COVID-19 cases in the province, perhaps by as much as half.

But despite the "glimmer of hope," provincial health officer Dr. Bonnie Henry and other officials stressed that the province is not out of the woods and the health-care system still needs to be prepared for an inevitable surge in hospitalizations.

"I'm trying not to over-call it, but I do believe we've seen a flattening, a falling-off of that curve," Henry said Friday, referring to the growth of new COVID-19 patients in B.C.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/covid-19-bc-modelling-numbers-dr-bonnie-henry-1.5512269
I live in BC in the interior and I can attest that people are wearing gloves, using leftover hand sanitizer, and keeping their distance.  So perhaps we will be spared somewhat or caught in the 2nd wave that seems to be coming like a distant tsunami.  Hope I am not being negative. Hope we all survive this...seems people are drinking a lot more....
 
I said it was not normal protocol for this site, but not normal times, if the curators want to pull down the post, let them. However to get a E-com website designed by a master (believe me I have worked with him for 3 years and seen amazing results) for 2K is a steal. Try finding that anywhere. And I never said it was a charity.

Do you expect him to do it for free?  The main thing is if your business was closed and you are not selling squat, then you have a chance to change this, even if you use a different service to do so. I call it fighting the invisible war this way.
People have lost their livelihoods, so if this offends you by  someone trying to help then you have to look at yourself.  I will do a lot of positive things for society without rewards as I have always done, part of my makeup.  If I can help someone get there business back on their feet then that is a good thing.
I will leave it to the curators whether they want to remove the post. 
 
Highlander said:
I said it was not normal protocol for this site, but not normal times, if the curators want to pull down the post, let them. However to get a E-com website designed by a master (believe me I have worked with him for 3 years and seen amazing results) for 2K is a steal. Try finding that anywhere. And I never said it was a charity.

Do you expect him to do it for free?  The main thing is if your business was closed and you are not selling squat, then you have a chance to change this, even if you use a different service to do so. I call it fighting the invisible war this way.
People have lost their livelihoods, so if this offends you by  someone trying to help then you have to look at yourself.  I will do a lot of positive things for society without rewards as I have always done, part of my makeup.  If I can help someone get there business back on their feet then that is a good thing.
I will leave it to the curators whether they want to remove the post. 

I'll compromise by just saying that we don't really need a 3rd separate Coronavirus thread for this.
 

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