Coyotes @ Maple Leafs - Oct. 17th, 7:00pm - SN, TSN 1050

[herman]

I find it hilarious and sad that so many people said the regular season doesn't mean anything yet 4 games into an 82 game schedule, the team is garbage and Keefe can't coach. It's a long season, breathe.

I think it's mostly on the players. Coaching staff can only say so much, push so many buttons. Tactical adjustments are pretty meaningless if players aren't putting themselves in the flow of the game. This is where Tavares or Matthews or Marner or Rielly have to set the tone. Not having Jason Spezza on the bench (and on the ice) hurts on nights like these.

If these guys want a night off (it's a long season and a grind), then come out with empty-net urgency from the get go and put the game away early; pot those 4 goals in the first and let Kampf and Jarnkrok and Engvall mop up and pad their stats. It's an easier game mentally to just break up plays, rather than creating offense uphill.

 

[bustaheims]

I find it hilarious and sad that so many people said the regular season doesn't mean anything yet 4 games into an 82 game schedule, the team is garbage and Keefe can't coach. It's a long season, breathe.

It's also not like they've been getting dominated out there. They've mostly controlled the play, they're just not getting the results. A lot of that is the result of early season rustiness. Things aren't as smooth or as crisp as they are once these guys get into a groove. Timing and accuracy are still a little off, but they'll get there.

 

[cw]

I find it hilarious and sad that so many people said the regular season doesn't mean anything yet 4 games into an 82 game schedule, the team is garbage and Keefe can't coach. It's a long season, breathe.

It's also not like they've been getting dominated out there. They've mostly controlled the play, they're just not getting the results. A lot of that is the result of early season rustiness. Things aren't as smooth or as crisp as they are once these guys get into a groove. Timing and accuracy are still a little off, but they'll get there.

I missed bunches of last night's game but that is part of my impression.

One thing I have started to wonder about but have nothing definitive yet is whether teams had time to study Matthews & company and implemented some things to make it more difficult for them. When the do that, something else usually opens up.

Whatever it is, they'll figure it out. I'm not worried at this point about them being able to score over the course of a full season.

 

[cw]

Hockey News: WHY MORGAN RIELLY'S HAND PASS OVERTURNED TORONTO'S GOALD

Rule 71.9 of the NHL rulebook states: ?A player shall be permitted to stop or ?bat? a puck in the air with his open hand, or push it along the ice with his hand, and the play shall not be stopped.?

So far, so good for Rielly. But it continues:

?Unless, in the opinion of the on-ice officials, he has directed the puck to a teammate, or has allowed his team to gain an advantage, and subsequently possession and control of the puck is obtained by a player of the offending team, either directly or deflected off any player or official.?

Referee Kelly Sutherland said (to the wave of boos filling Scotiabank Arena) the puck was directed to a teammate by Morgan Rielly. In that case, with the puck going straight down, it seems difficult to justify.

But the other option is if the handball (handpuck) allowed Toronto to gain an advantage and if a Leafs player was the next to fully control the puck. In this case, there?s more justification for the goal to be disallowed.

I'm not a fan of the call but that "allowed his team to gain an advantage" part made it a little more fuzzy.

If Rielly had not touched it with his hand and instead, blocked it with his body, they couldn't have called anything. In the d-zone, the rule is more forgiving.

I still think they got ripped off.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/lukefoxjukebox/status/1582195097797419008

[quote author=Hand pass rule part 1]79.1 Hand Pass - A player shall be permitted to stop or ?bat? a puck in the
air with his open hand, or push it along the ice with his hand, and the
play shall not be stopped unless, in the opinion of the on-ice officials,
he has directed the puck to a teammate, or has allowed his team to
gain an advantage,[/quote]

The "or has allowed his team to gain an advantage" wording of this rule has always made it pretty black and white because you can argue that anytime a player bats/hits the puck down it gives his team an advantage. The rule pretty much always gets called anytime that type of contact is made regardless of where the puck goes after. So I don't think there's any denying that Rielly did initiate the hand pass rule.

And as Marner said in his post game comments, even he believed that to be the case. What he got confused with is thinking that Keller negated the hand pass call when the puck hit off Keller's skate. Part 2 of the rule says:

[quote author=Hand pass rule part 2]and subsequently possession and control of the
puck is obtained by a player of the offending team, either directly or
deflected off any player or official.[/quote]

Marner obtained possession and control of the puck after it deflected off another player (Keller). Keller would have needed to have actual possession of the puck, even for a split second, for it to have gone back to being a live puck.

So I dunno, I was as bummed about it as anyone when it happened but it does seem to me that it was a pretty clear cut missed call by the refs.

 

[ZBBM]

I'm about done with Keefe.  He blows up the other night over typical bad calls but here he just stands there in disbelief.  To me he's a mediocre coach who doesn't add much value. 

I've questioned many of his decisions but I'm not sure what you'd have him do there? Throw stuff on the ice? Is there value added in a coach throwing a tantrum?

What I'm driving at is that he doesn't have the personality to motivate this group to be at their best more often ? they are too comfortable.  His reaction to a call that cost them a point was pretty blase.  It's like he's OK with it.  It sends the wrong message.   

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Leafs and Canucks should trade coaches.

 

[Frank E]

This gets poopoo'd, but I'm not sure this current iteration has enough jam.

A little crash and bang chaos might have been in order last night.

Muzzin can't play that game anymore, and honestly neither should Gio.

 

[cw]

This gets poopoo'd, but I'm not sure this current iteration has enough jam.

I haven't concluded that. It's too early. Need to see more hockey and how the teams and league shape up.
But I do wonder about it and consider that it might turn out that way.

Muzzin can't play that game anymore, and honestly neither should Gio.

It's starting to look that way for Muzzin.
Giordano shouldn't at his age.

 

[Bullfrog]

No idea what some of you see in Engvall. Absolute dreadful signing. Doesn't score, doesn't hit completely invisible in the playoffs and Dubas resigns him. Should have shipped him off along with some others and kept Mikheyev at least he was noticeable. But what do I know.

No salary cap? Sure, keep Mikheyev, whom everyone knows is a better player.

 

[Bender]

No idea what some of you see in Engvall. Absolute dreadful signing. Doesn't score, doesn't hit completely invisible in the playoffs and Dubas resigns him. Should have shipped him off along with some others and kept Mikheyev at least he was noticeable. But what do I know.

No salary cap? Sure, keep Mikheyev, whom everyone knows is a better player.

Engvall for the cap hit is a pretty good player imo.

 

[rdowdall]

No idea what some of you see in Engvall. Absolute dreadful signing. Doesn't score, doesn't hit completely invisible in the playoffs and Dubas resigns him. Should have shipped him off along with some others and kept Mikheyev at least he was noticeable. But what do I know.

No salary cap? Sure, keep Mikheyev, whom everyone knows is a better player.

Engvall for the cap hit is a pretty good player imo.

Who didn't have a training camp so he might be a step behind.

 

[azzurri63]

No idea what some of you see in Engvall. Absolute dreadful signing. Doesn't score, doesn't hit completely invisible in the playoffs and Dubas resigns him. Should have shipped him off along with some others and kept Mikheyev at least he was noticeable. But what do I know.

No salary cap? Sure, keep Mikheyev, whom everyone knows is a better player.

Engvall for the cap hit is a pretty good player imo.

Who didn't have a training camp so he might be a step behind.

Ya I'm sure that has some bearing on things but it's not going to matter we'll still feel the same in a month. Can fill his spot with someone cheaper that brings the same crap to the table. Big bodied soft player that completely disappeared in the playoffs and that's not going to change. Come back mid season and tell me different. Dubas, Keefe whoever are completely lost when it comes to the on ice decisions. Keep complaining about the same guys making mistakes, poor play etc etc but we keep rolling with some of these guys.

 

[Joe S.]

I love the smell of panic in October.

 

[ZBBM]

I love the smell of panic in October.

It's not panic, it's calling out things that have been problems for awhile and don't get fixed.  Which is the MLHS criticism of Keefe (shared by me and others on here too).

 

[Arn]

I'm about done with Keefe.  He blows up the other night over typical bad calls but here he just stands there in disbelief.  To me he's a mediocre coach who doesn't add much value. 

I've questioned many of his decisions but I'm not sure what you'd have him do there? Throw stuff on the ice? Is there value added in a coach throwing a tantrum?

What I'm driving at is that he doesn't have the personality to motivate this group to be at their best more often ? they are too comfortable.  His reaction to a call that cost them a point was pretty blase.  It's like he's OK with it.  It sends the wrong message.   

Equally we don?t want another Babcock where it goes too far the other way. It?s a fine line coaches have to tread now I feel.


I think the modern player generally does respond more to the more empathetic arm round the shoulder type coach. But there are times when you need to dish out a good bollocking. It?s getting that balance right that it remains a motivation rather than being tuned out.

 

[Joe S.]

I love the smell of panic in October.

It's not panic, it's calling out things that have been problems for awhile and don't get fixed.  Which is the MLHS criticism of Keefe (shared by me and others on here too).

And I still think it?s too early to call out a team that had 115 points a year ago that started 2-4-1 a year ago and who are 2-2 right now.

Let?s give it maybe 10 games before we pull the parachute?

 

[Frank E]

I love the smell of panic in October.

It's not panic, it's calling out things that have been problems for awhile and don't get fixed.  Which is the MLHS criticism of Keefe (shared by me and others on here too).

And I still think it?s too early to call out a team that had 115 points a year ago that started 2-4-1 a year ago and who are 2-2 right now.

Let?s give it maybe 10 games before we pull the parachute?

You get 5 games, Iafrate...five. 

After that, boom, we blow this thing up.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I'm about done with Keefe.  He blows up the other night over typical bad calls but here he just stands there in disbelief.  To me he's a mediocre coach who doesn't add much value. 

I've questioned many of his decisions but I'm not sure what you'd have him do there? Throw stuff on the ice? Is there value added in a coach throwing a tantrum?

What I'm driving at is that he doesn't have the personality to motivate this group to be at their best more often ? they are too comfortable.  His reaction to a call that cost them a point was pretty blase.  It's like he's OK with it.  It sends the wrong message.   

I didn't get that impression at all.

I'll happily rail on Keefe for not adjusting to the Coyotes collapsing to the net. I'll rail on him for not starting Samsonov. But I won't rail on a coach for not throwing a tantrum when a call doesn't go his way. I mean, the refs ultimately made the correct call right?

 

[azzurri63]

I love the smell of panic in October.

It's not panic, it's calling out things that have been problems for awhile and don't get fixed.  Which is the MLHS criticism of Keefe (shared by me and others on here too).

That in a nutshell is exactly what bothers me about this team and it's not only coaching but more-so upper management.