Current Leaf players who will be free agents

[Strangelove]

Honestly, I'd let them all walk. The way the Leafs roster is right now the discussion can't just be about who's good or who isn't, it really has to be about looking at who can be replaced at a cheaper price from within even if it means a short term setback. I don't see that there's really anything that Kulemin, Bolland or McClement add that you don't want to at least give some guys on the Marlies a shot at recreating.

I mean, given what we saw from the larger flaws in this team going forward, what difference does it make if Paul Ranger is a little bit better than TJ Brennan or Bolland a little bit better than Peter Holland?

I have to disagree with you Nik, I am sorry Holland does not hold a candle to Bolland and TJ Brennan is just as bad defensively as Franson but can skate better. We overvalue the guys in the AHL. There is a reason that they are there.

By that logic no AHLer would ever graduate to become a good NHL player.

Do you know who actually gets massively overvalued in this league? Guys, like Dave Bolland and David Clarkson, who happen to be able to chip in the odd goal and throw the odd hit, and thus get paid 5.5 million despite being defensively suspect third liners incapable of scoring more than 40 points in their best seasons. Somebody may want to pay guys like that, but it shouldn't be the Leafs.

haha...except that BOTH clarkson and bolland scored more than 40 points in their best seasons and neither of them have ever made 5.5 million.

Yeah that is some funny stuff.

Bolland hit the mark once, 7 years ago. Clarkson hit the mark once, 3 years ago, while being heavily used on the powerplay. Both have since been relegated to third or fourth line roles, and seem extremely unlikely to repeat their already mediocre career best.  Nothing about these players suggests they are worth the greater than five million they are making/looking to make.

 

[sneakyray]

Honestly, I'd let them all walk. The way the Leafs roster is right now the discussion can't just be about who's good or who isn't, it really has to be about looking at who can be replaced at a cheaper price from within even if it means a short term setback. I don't see that there's really anything that Kulemin, Bolland or McClement add that you don't want to at least give some guys on the Marlies a shot at recreating.

I mean, given what we saw from the larger flaws in this team going forward, what difference does it make if Paul Ranger is a little bit better than TJ Brennan or Bolland a little bit better than Peter Holland?

I have to disagree with you Nik, I am sorry Holland does not hold a candle to Bolland and TJ Brennan is just as bad defensively as Franson but can skate better. We overvalue the guys in the AHL. There is a reason that they are there.

By that logic no AHLer would ever graduate to become a good NHL player.

Do you know who actually gets massively overvalued in this league? Guys, like Dave Bolland and David Clarkson, who happen to be able to chip in the odd goal and throw the odd hit, and thus get paid 5.5 million despite being defensively suspect third liners incapable of scoring more than 40 points in their best seasons. Somebody may want to pay guys like that, but it shouldn't be the Leafs.

haha...except that BOTH clarkson and bolland scored more than 40 points in their best seasons and neither of them have ever made 5.5 million.

Yeah that is some funny stuff.

Bolland hit the mark once, 7 years ago. Clarkson hit the mark once, 3 years ago, while being heavily used on the powerplay. Both have since been relegated to third or fourth line roles, and seem extremely unlikely to repeat their already mediocre career best.  Nothing about these players suggests they are worth the greater than five million they are making/looking to make.

I mostly agree...I just don't like it when people exaggerate to make a point.  This stuff about bolland seeking 5+ per year sounds like the kadri stuff last offseason which even kadri denied.  After hearing shanny and nonis talk today I am interested to see what happens this offseason.  Nonis wouldn't even confirm that phaneuf would have the C next year.

 

[2badknees]

Yeah, I'd be surprised if a team gives Bolland 5M. He's a 3M player on my team, and kulimen is a 1.5M-2M. But no doubt they'll get more elsewhere.

I'm also solidly in the "let them all walk" camp.

 

[freer]

Honestly, I'd let them all walk. The way the Leafs roster is right now the discussion can't just be about who's good or who isn't, it really has to be about looking at who can be replaced at a cheaper price from within even if it means a short term setback. I don't see that there's really anything that Kulemin, Bolland or McClement add that you don't want to at least give some guys on the Marlies a shot at recreating.

I mean, given what we saw from the larger flaws in this team going forward, what difference does it make if Paul Ranger is a little bit better than TJ Brennan or Bolland a little bit better than Peter Holland?

I have to disagree with you Nik, I am sorry Holland does not hold a candle to Bolland and TJ Brennan is just as bad defensively as Franson but can skate better. We overvalue the guys in the AHL. There is a reason that they are there.

By that logic no AHLer would ever graduate to become a good NHL player.

Do you know who actually gets massively overvalued in this league? Guys, like Dave Bolland and David Clarkson, who happen to be able to chip in the odd goal and throw the odd hit, and thus get paid 5.5 million despite being defensively suspect third liners incapable of scoring more than 40 points in their best seasons. Somebody may want to pay guys like that, but it shouldn't be the Leafs.

haha...except that BOTH clarkson and bolland scored more than 40 points in their best seasons and neither of them have ever made 5.5 million.

Yeah that is some funny stuff.

Bolland hit the mark once, 7 years ago. Clarkson hit the mark once, 3 years ago, while being heavily used on the powerplay. Both have since been relegated to third or fourth line roles, and seem extremely unlikely to repeat their already mediocre career best.  Nothing about these players suggests they are worth the greater than five million they are making/looking to make.

Yeah, I'd be surprised if a team gives Bolland 5M. He's a 3M player on my team, and kulimen is a 1.5M-2M. But no doubt they'll get more elsewhere.

I'm also solidly in the "let them all walk" camp.

Let them all walk, Trade Kessel and JVR and wait seven or eight more years until we make the playoffs again. Be just like EDM.

 

[Redleaf]

Honestly, I'd let them all walk. The way the Leafs roster is right now the discussion can't just be about who's good or who isn't, it really has to be about looking at who can be replaced at a cheaper price from within even if it means a short term setback. I don't see that there's really anything that Kulemin, Bolland or McClement add that you don't want to at least give some guys on the Marlies a shot at recreating.

I mean, given what we saw from the larger flaws in this team going forward, what difference does it make if Paul Ranger is a little bit better than TJ Brennan or Bolland a little bit better than Peter Holland?

I have to disagree with you Nik, I am sorry Holland does not hold a candle to Bolland and TJ Brennan is just as bad defensively as Franson but can skate better. We overvalue the guys in the AHL. There is a reason that they are there.

By that logic no AHLer would ever graduate to become a good NHL player.

Do you know who actually gets massively overvalued in this league? Guys, like Dave Bolland and David Clarkson, who happen to be able to chip in the odd goal and throw the odd hit, and thus get paid 5.5 million despite being defensively suspect third liners incapable of scoring more than 40 points in their best seasons. Somebody may want to pay guys like that, but it shouldn't be the Leafs.

haha...except that BOTH clarkson and bolland scored more than 40 points in their best seasons and neither of them have ever made 5.5 million.

Yeah that is some funny stuff.

Bolland hit the mark once, 7 years ago. Clarkson hit the mark once, 3 years ago, while being heavily used on the powerplay. Both have since been relegated to third or fourth line roles, and seem extremely unlikely to repeat their already mediocre career best.  Nothing about these players suggests they are worth the greater than five million they are making/looking to make.

Yeah, I'd be surprised if a team gives Bolland 5M. He's a 3M player on my team, and kulimen is a 1.5M-2M. But no doubt they'll get more elsewhere.

I'm also solidly in the "let them all walk" camp.

Let them all walk, Trade Kessel and JVR and wait seven or eight more years until we make the playoffs again. Be just like EDM.

Yep. Thats the long and short of it. People said they were willing to be patient the last time this team got ripped apart. Now, here we are 6 years later, and I'm guessing most of those fans are sick and tired of waiting for this club to be competitive again. How does 'another' 6 years sound?

 

[Highlander]

This team is 3 or 4 players away from being a good team and we have 3 of these players right now on the Marlies. The Big stud Centre needs to be found. Luckily we do have a few bargaining chips to attain this.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Let them all walk, Trade Kessel and JVR and wait seven or eight more years until we make the playoffs again. Be just like EDM.

Yep. Thats the long and short of it. People said they were willing to be patient the last time this team got ripped apart. Now, here we are 6 years later, and I'm guessing most of those fans are sick and tired of waiting for this club to be competitive again. How does 'another' 6 years sound?

How does "let a bunch of 3rd/4th line players walk" = "restart the rebuild"?

 

[Redleaf]

Let them all walk, Trade Kessel and JVR and wait seven or eight more years until we make the playoffs again. Be just like EDM.

Yep. Thats the long and short of it. People said they were willing to be patient the last time this team got ripped apart. Now, here we are 6 years later, and I'm guessing most of those fans are sick and tired of waiting for this club to be competitive again. How does 'another' 6 years sound?

How does "let a bunch of 3rd/4th line players walk" = "restart the rebuild"?

Let them all walk, Trade Kessel and JVR.

I was taking the whole sentence into context.

 

[Highlander]

trading Kessel and JVR is the talk of a madman, they are the cornerstones you build around. Redleaf perhaps a good betablocker would help sooth your unhappiness.

 

[Redleaf]

This team is 3 or 4 players away from being a good team and we have 3 of these players right now on the Marlies. The Big stud Centre needs to be found. Luckily we do have a few bargaining chips to attain this.

I don't think there is an answer for the 'D' currently on the Marlies. There are options, but not necessarily the big, stay-at-home 1st pairing guy this team needs right now.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Let them all walk, Trade Kessel and JVR.

I was taking the whole sentence into context.

Well you were reading it out of context because it was clearly a sarcastic reply and nobody else is really advocating that type of plan.

 

[Redleaf]

trading Kessel and JVR is the talk of a madman, they are the cornerstones you build around. Redleaf perhaps a good betablocker would help sooth your unhappiness.

I wasn't suggesting it. Just commenting on it.

 

[Redleaf]

Let them all walk, Trade Kessel and JVR.

I was taking the whole sentence into context.

Well you were reading it out of context because it was clearly a sarcastic reply and nobody else is really advocating that type of plan.

There have been one or two posters that have seriously suggested trading Kessel and rebuilding. To be honest, I wouldn't be completely against it under the right circumstances.

 

[Kin]

Yep. Thats the long and short of it. People said they were willing to be patient the last time this team got ripped apart. Now, here we are 6 years later, and I'm guessing most of those fans are sick and tired of waiting for this club to be competitive again. How does 'another' 6 years sound?

The reason I didn't like moves like the Kessel trade, the Phaneuf trade and some of the signings as they happened is because I thought that the only way for the Leafs to be truly competitive, as in be a serious cup contender, was to embark on a traditional rebuild. Now that it's five years after they decided to "retool" as opposed to rebuild and they're nowhere close to being a contender I feel vindicated, not impatient.

 

[Redleaf]

Yep. Thats the long and short of it. People said they were willing to be patient the last time this team got ripped apart. Now, here we are 6 years later, and I'm guessing most of those fans are sick and tired of waiting for this club to be competitive again. How does 'another' 6 years sound?

The reason I didn't like moves like the Kessel trade, the Phaneuf trade and some of the signings as they happened is because I thought that the only way for the Leafs to be truly competitive, as in be a serious cup contender, was to embark on a traditional rebuild. Now that it's five years after they decided to "retool" as opposed to rebuild and they're nowhere close to being a contender I feel vindicated, not impatient.

Whether or not their decision to re-tool back then was a proper one is irrelevant now. Feeling vindicated doesn't do anyone any good. This team and its fans need to move forward from here, and the next step in the process is all that matters right now.

Where do you think they should go from here? Its never too late for the club to admit their mistake and start a proper rebuild right now, although that seems highly unlikely at this point.

I'll admit, I wouldn't be as disappointed as some if they crashed and burned again next season, and somehow drafted McDavid in the process.

You know, kind of 'forced' into doing a more thorough rebuild.

 

[Andy007]

Yea, maybe just fire Carlyle and see how this team performs under a new coach before trading your elite, franchise player? Because, really, the team was pretty great during stretches with quality goaltending until Randy arrived. I don't think people truly appreciate just how much of a negative impact Carlyle is/has had. 

 

[Damian]

^^^^^^What he said^^^^^^

 

[Redleaf]

Yea, maybe just fire Carlyle and see how this team performs under a new coach before trading your elite, franchise player? Because, really, the team was pretty great during stretches with quality goaltending until Randy arrived. I don't think people truly appreciate just how much of a negative impact Carlyle is/has had.

And some people are using that as an excuse for deeper running issues with this club.

Im not advocating trading Kessel this off season. However, if this team falls apart again next year with another epic collapse, then you'd have to seriously consider doing something much more drastic than firing another coach.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Yea, maybe just fire Carlyle and see how this team performs under a new coach before trading your elite, franchise player? Because, really, the team was pretty great during stretches with quality goaltending until Randy arrived. I don't think people truly appreciate just how much of a negative impact Carlyle is/has had.

And some people are using that as an excuse for deeper running issues with this club.

Nah it's pretty clear: http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=6917

And in any event, you can't know if there are deeper running issues until you figure out how much of it was coaching and how much wasn't.  That article, and as Mirtle has pointed out many times, points to very noticeable declines/improvements with/without Carlyle on different teams.

 

[Andy007]

Yea, maybe just fire Carlyle and see how this team performs under a new coach before trading your elite, franchise player? Because, really, the team was pretty great during stretches with quality goaltending until Randy arrived. I don't think people truly appreciate just how much of a negative impact Carlyle is/has had.

if this team falls apart again next season with another epic collapse, then you'd have to seriously consider doing something much more drastic than firing another coach

Well now, that's a whole other kettle of fish. We're talking about what to do now, aren't we?

Besides, two of the three " epic collapses" were directly tied to Carlyle and his awful system (despite having a superior offense and goaltending). This hasn't been a constant struggle with the same players under a number of different coaches.