David Clarkson

[GhostofPotvin29]

I don't even get how Nonis could even make an argument for the contract Clarkson received.  It's like they literally didn't scout him and gave him the deal based on that 30 goal season and with an assumption that he was a physical goal scorer.  He creates nothing at all for himself or anyone else, it's pretty remarkable.

But Nonis said they don't expect him to score 30 goals!

I like the first post of this thread from hfboards from a Devils fan: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1462585

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I like the first post of this thread from hfboards from a Devils fan: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1462585

The entire thread is pretty great. Like somebody there said, there's at least 10 players that even back then I would have said were better than Clarkson.

 

[freer]

He has not played up to his contract. I got that.
He took less money to play in TO.
Even if this guy was scoring 30 goals this year. Guys would complain about him because the team bought out of Grabo. I never like him on the team, so I dont miss him anyways.
This guy would have to fight a whole team and score a hat trick before anyone would give him a Kudo's.
I dont get it.

 

[Kin]

Well the UFA class wasn't very good so that's not really saying much.  Even with that, I'd still say the same as above.  There was plenty of non-TSN/Sportsnet criticism of the idea of signing Clarkson to the deal he was expected to get and criticism of the deal he did get.  But I would assume that Nonis makes this move independent of what the media/hockey world thinks and based off him and his pro scouts' opinions.

It wasn't the best UFA class, that's for sure, but there were good players in it who are having good seasons for their new/old teams so the fact that Clarkson was as highly regarded as he was isn't indicative of anything more than he was seen as a valuable piece to add by guys who are, at the very least, representative of mainstream Hockey thinking on the subject. I don't assume that Nonis made the signing on those media outlets high opinion of Clarkson but I do assume that his staff shared those opinions because, again, they're firmly entrenched within that mainstream.

I'm not, and wasn't, a fan of the deal so the criticism of it that came from elsewhere certainly rings true with me and there's no defending how the deal looks now but it didn't arrive out of the blue. Nonis simply shared an opinion with a lot of knowledgeable hockey people that, ultimately, appears to be wrong.

The extent to which "Nonis paid the market price for the guy a lot of people thought was the #1 free agent available" is a compelling argument may vary but that's what it is.

 

[Kin]

He has not played up to his contract. I got that.
He took less money to play in TO.
Even if this guy was scoring 30 goals this year. Guys would complain about him because the team bought out of Grabo. I never like him on the team, so I dont miss him anyways.
This guy would have to fight a whole team and score a hat trick before anyone would give him a Kudo's.
I dont get it.

I'd take a single goal right now. Good, bad, bounce off his butt...I'd take it. Heck I'd take an assist. I'd take him ringing one off the post or one decent shift where he's knocking people down and cycling the puck effectively.

 

[L K]

He has not played up to his contract. I got that.
He took less money to play in TO.

That is a bit of a misnomer.  He took less money than Edmonton offered.  Edmonton HAS to overpay to acquire guys because of the location.  The list of guys who have turned down more money from Edmonton to sign elsewhere is very, very long.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

He has not played up to his contract. I got that.
He took less money to play in TO.
Even if this guy was scoring 30 goals this year. Guys would complain about him because the team bought out of Grabo. I never like him on the team, so I dont miss him anyways.
This guy would have to fight a whole team and score a hat trick before anyone would give him a Kudo's.
I dont get it.

I'd definitely not complain about him if he had 30 goals.  Like Kessel, I tend to give the guys who actually produce the benefit of the doubt more often than not.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

He took less money to play in TO.

Edmonton hardly counts as a team. And considering the structure of Clarkson's contract (vast majority of it is in guaranteed signing bonuses), you could certainly argue Toronto's offer was more appealing financially.

Even if this guy was scoring 30 goals this year. Guys would complain about him because the team bought out of Grabo. I never like him on the team, so I dont miss him anyways.

Don't think anybody has brought up Grabbo in a long time, certainly not in any relation to Clarkson. And no, I'm pretty sure if he was scoring 4x as many goals as he is now people wouldn't be too upset.

This guy would have to fight a whole team and score a hat trick before anyone would give him a Kudo's.

A bunch of us were giving him kudos for his game in Anaheim where he only had to fight two (2) guys!

I dont get it.

I know.

 

[L K]

He has not played up to his contract. I got that.
He took less money to play in TO.
Even if this guy was scoring 30 goals this year. Guys would complain about him because the team bought out of Grabo. I never like him on the team, so I dont miss him anyways.
This guy would have to fight a whole team and score a hat trick before anyone would give him a Kudo's.
I dont get it.

I'd take a single goal right now. Good, bad, bounce off his butt...I'd take it. Heck I'd take an assist. I'd take him ringing one off the post or one decent shift where he's knocking people down and cycling the puck effectively.

Given his career high of 16 assists, I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for many of those.

 

[freer]

He has not played up to his contract. I got that.
He took less money to play in TO.
Even if this guy was scoring 30 goals this year. Guys would complain about him because the team bought out of Grabo. I never like him on the team, so I dont miss him anyways.
This guy would have to fight a whole team and score a hat trick before anyone would give him a Kudo's.
I dont get it.

I'd take a single goal right now. Good, bad, bounce off his butt...I'd take it. Heck I'd take an assist. I'd take him ringing one off the post or one decent shift where he's knocking people down and cycling the puck effectively.

The game in ANA, he and his line played awesome, banging and crashing. He had two fights. One was protecting is team mates. And not a good word said.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

The game in ANA, he and his line played awesome, banging and crashing. He had two fights. One was protecting is team mates. And not a good word said.

Again, not true. Go through the GDT thread or even a couple pages back in this thread. People pointed out he had a good game. At this point our expectations are so low I'll applaud him for not falling down during a shift.

 

[Kin]

Edmonton hardly counts as a team. And considering the structure of Clarkson's contract (vast majority of it is in guaranteed signing bonuses), you could certainly argue Toronto's offer was more appealing financially.

That strikes me as a little unfair. Considering how badly Edmonton wanted him it seems unlikely that they wouldn't have matched the structure of Toronto's offer if that was a hangup. Likewise, Edmonton did sign a couple of well regarded UFA's this off-season at not-outrageous prices so Clarkson's decision did mean something, even if I wish it didn't.

 

[Kin]

The game in ANA, he and his line played awesome, banging and crashing.

That's a pretty big exaggeration. They were ok but didn't produce a goal and only 3 shots on net between them.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

That strikes me as a little unfair. Considering how badly Edmonton wanted him it seems unlikely that they wouldn't have matched the structure of Toronto's offer if that was a hangup. Likewise, Edmonton did sign a couple of well regarded UFA's this off-season at not-outrageous prices so Clarkson's decision did mean something, even if I wish it didn't.

Ference was a home-town boy, so the whole Edmonton being a terrible team/city thing doesn't effect him. He took a discount for that reason, something Clarkson certainly didn't do. And I would argue Gordon was overpaid. Not in any crippling manner but it's more than I would give somebody who's just a slightly better Jay McClement.

As for the contract structure, well I'm just not sure how well Edmonton is doing financially to afford something like that. Maybe they could.

 

[Kin]

Ference was a home-town boy, so the whole Edmonton being a terrible team/city thing doesn't effect him. He took a discount for that reason, something Clarkson certainly didn't do. And I would argue Gordon was overpaid. Not in any crippling manner but it's more than I would give somebody who's just a slightly better Jay McClement.

Hold on, I'm currently trying to work out what percentage of this post is facetious.

As for the contract structure, well I'm just not sure how well Edmonton is doing financially to afford something like that. Maybe they could.

You may know this better than me but the difference in structure doesn't really amount to a significant difference for the team, does it?

Either way, though, Katz is doing fine.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

You may know this better than me but the difference in structure doesn't really amount to a significant difference for the team, does it?

Well, some teams just don't like paying out large lump sums like that. If you end up looking to trade him later in his contract you could be paying a player 70% of his salary for the year even if you trade him in October. For a team like the Maple Leafs, who cares right? If Katz is fine with that then maybe they could have also matched it. There's also talk about how his contract structure makes it almost buy-out proof, because those signing bonuses are guaranteed and wouldn't be subject to the 1/3 payout.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Hold on, I'm currently trying to work out what percentage of this post is facetious.

This weather's making me cranky.

 

[Kin]

Well, some teams just don't like paying out large lump sums like that. If you end up looking to trade him later in his contract you could be paying a player 70% of his salary for the year even if you trade him in October. For a team like the Maple Leafs, who cares right? If Katz is fine with that then maybe they could have also matched it. There's also talk about how his contract structure makes it almost buy-out proof, because those signing bonuses are guaranteed and wouldn't be subject to the 1/3 payout.

Still, I think if you're offering someone 7 years and 35+ million while you're going to keep an eye on the worst case scenario I think it's safe to say that you're not overly concerned with the buyout ramifications/trade implications and, in this case, I'd guess that a competitive, hungry to finally turn the team around Katz is more likely to enter into bad agreements than MLSE. Either way, I don't think you can dismiss the realities of Clarkson turning down more money because you aren't sure if Katz would have matched MLSE's contract structure or even how their offer was structured.

As for the rest of it, I think you're monday morning quarterbacking a little. Edmonton obviously has had some trouble attracting guys in the past but there was a lot of optimism surrounding them this year what with Eakins and the admittedly relative improvement they made last year.

 

[bustaheims]

He has not played up to his contract. I got that.
He took less money to play in TO.

Completely and totally meaningless. It really doesn't matter how much money other teams offered him if he's not even earning the money the Leafs agreed to pay him.

Even if this guy was scoring 30 goals this year. Guys would complain about him because the team bought out of Grabo. I never like him on the team, so I dont miss him anyways.

That's just not true. If he was producing anywhere close to commensurate with pay rate, you'd barely hear anything about him from most people. There will still be people that wouldn't like him, sure, but there are people that don't like Kessel, regardless of the fact that he's among the most talented players in the league.

This guy would have to fight a whole team and score a hat trick before anyone would give him a Kudo's.
I dont get it.

He could fight the entire league and I still wouldn't give him any kudos. He's not being paid $5.25M per season to fight. He's paid to do things that actually help the team win games - you know, like score goals, win puck battles, be a strong net presence, etc - and he's not doing any of those most nights.

 

[lamajama]

Was not familiar with Clarkson prior to this year and can not understand his value at any price this year. He's almost a Colton Orr type that can't skate and falls over a lot. Doesn't seem to be able to play in his own end (although that is true of a lot of his teammates but really...esp coming from NJ) and seems to lack any hockey offensive sense other than to try and skate through 3-4 players on his own. Doesn't use his line mates and rarely passes the puck.

I'm just baffled that he's either this crappy (unlikely) or RC and the goofy "system" he has them playing has screwed up his head badly.

Regardless he isn't going anywhere so I hope he gets his act together next year and on otherwise he's going to want out and by then Leaf Nation will be really hard on him. Right now as bad as it is, it's kid gloves.