Draft Pick Watch - WE PICKED NYLANDER!!1!!

[GhostofPotvin29]

Kipper tweeted today that he's hearing Leafs are
working phones big time to make a deal and the only names not being shopped are Kessel, Bernier, Bozak and Reilly.

I think that's just not wanting to miss out on the Leafs page hit parade.

Put some obvious names down and then make a controversy by putting Bozak instead of JVR.

JVR is younger and a lot better than Bozak for about the same money.

Yeah, it makes zero sense and the way he worded it is that they are 'shopping' JVR.  I say no chance they are doing that.  None.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

Heck, why give them anything at all? We're not in the business of helping the Florida Panthers.

Was that a shot at my comment, or are you agreeing with me that this kind of trade would help the Panthers much more than us?

 

[losveratos]

Kipper tweeted today that he's hearing Leafs are
working phones big time to make a deal and the only names not being shopped are Kessel, Bernier, Bozak and Reilly.

I think that's just not wanting to miss out on the Leafs page hit parade.

Put some obvious names down and then make a controversy by putting Bozak instead of JVR.

JVR is younger and a lot better than Bozak for about the same money.

Yeah, it makes zero sense and the way he worded it is that they are 'shopping' JVR.  I say no chance they are doing that.  None.

I think it makes sense for the most part. Those 4 names are the most likely to not be traded in my opinion. Reason being that they wouldn't be able to garner more value for the team via trade than they already offer in value by staying with the team.

The reason JVR isn't on the list in my mind is because right now you can sell high. Higher than he's worth most likely. Where as with Bozak, he's worth more to us than almost any team in the league. Maybe all teams in the league. Same with Kessel and Rielly. Rielly being so young and so good that trading for something better is impossible and barring a one for one swap with Kessel, again you can't get back more than what he is already.

If I was the GM... those are probably the 4 names I wouldn't even bother talking about trading. I'd listen, don't get me wrong. But it most likely wouldn't give me anything worth caring about in the end.

 

[Kin]

Heck, why give them anything at all? We're not in the business of helping the Florida Panthers.

Was that a shot at my comment, or are you agreeing with me that this kind of trade would help the Panthers much more than us?

If I'd meant it as a response to you I'd have quoted you.

 

[Frank E]

Heck, why give them anything at all? We're not in the business of helping the Florida Panthers.

Was that a shot at my comment, or are you agreeing with me that this kind of trade would help the Panthers much more than us?

If I'd meant it as a response to you I'd have quoted you.

Are you taking a shot at me now?

 

[Kin]

Are you taking a shot at me now?

Yes.

 

[bustaheims]

Kipper tweeted today that he's hearing Leafs are
working phones big time to make a deal and the only names not being shopped are Kessel, Bernier, Bozak and Reilly.

Honestly, I don't put any stock into these blanket type rumours.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Kipper tweeted today that he's hearing Leafs are
working phones big time to make a deal and the only names not being shopped are Kessel, Bernier, Bozak and Reilly.

I think that's just not wanting to miss out on the Leafs page hit parade.

Put some obvious names down and then make a controversy by putting Bozak instead of JVR.

JVR is younger and a lot better than Bozak for about the same money.

Yeah, it makes zero sense and the way he worded it is that they are 'shopping' JVR.  I say no chance they are doing that.  None.

I think it makes sense for the most part. Those 4 names are the most likely to not be traded in my opinion. Reason being that they wouldn't be able to garner more value for the team via trade than they already offer in value by staying with the team.

The reason JVR isn't on the list in my mind is because right now you can sell high. Higher than he's worth most likely. Where as with Bozak, he's worth more to us than almost any team in the league.

JVR is on a $4.25 million cap hit until he's 29.  He's just entering his prime years.  Why would you sell high on that?  You could argue he's not even at his highest value yet.  Meanwhile Bozak is already 28 and heading out of his peak production years.

If anything, you're probably never going to get more value for Bozak than right now.  He's riding some high percentages in a couple shortened seasons and I don't think the odds are that continuing over the long haul, so it would be worth it to move him if they can and try and bring in a true #1 C.

 

[Corn Flake]

I think Bozak was put on that list just to troll all the haters.

 

[Corn Flake]

Yeah, it makes zero sense and the way he worded it is that they are 'shopping' JVR.  I say no chance they are doing that.  None.

ok so let's just play around for a second here with the notion this rumored stuff is actually true... it's possible that there could be proposed deals out there that include JVR which may bring the Leafs either a legit #1 centre or a true stud d-man.  If that was the case, I would be okay with moving him but of course it would have to be a helluva good return.

I think everyone needs to remember (not saying you.. I'm just saying) that just because a player is rumored to be available does not mean they are trying to dump the guy. He's just considered an asset they think could be moved in the right deal if the return was worth it.

 

[losveratos]

JVR is on a $4.25 million cap hit until he's 29.  He's just entering his prime years.  Why would you sell high on that?  You could argue he's not even at his highest value yet.  Meanwhile Bozak is already 28 and heading out of his peak production years.

If anything, you're probably never going to get more value for Bozak than right now.  He's riding some high percentages in a couple shortened seasons and I don't think the odds are that continuing over the long haul, so it would be worth it to move him if they can and try and bring in a true #1 C.

I guess I didn't explain myself clear enough. Sorry, I'll try again.

1st A bozak + deal doesn't bring in a true 1st line center. If it did they would have already traded him. (in my opinion anyhow)

Those guys... Bozak in particular, probably have more value to the Leafs than they would to any other team. So there's no point in trying to get the best offer for them.

JVR, Gardiner, Kadri, etc have big value, but we should be open to a trade because the return could of be of equal or greater value than they hold for the Leafs themselves.

So if we're looking to do more than change the paint on the car, we'd need to move the people around those pieces. Who's a similar aged goalie and better than ours that's available for trade? Who's got a Dman as young and talented as Rielly that they'd give up for us in return that would be a better fit? Which position of weakness do we deal Kessel to shore up? Who's better/younger than Bozak that is available for the price of him and something else added on? And if any of those things are available you'd have to ask yourself why. What's the catch? Who would trade their #1 Center for our Bozak and say Gardiner and a pick? Those trades don't happen every year and when they do... I'm sure another NHL team has something better to offer than Bozak.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I think everyone needs to remember (not saying you.. I'm just saying) that just because a player is rumored to be available does not mean they are trying to dump the guy. He's just considered an asset they think could be moved in the right deal if the return was worth it.

That's why I said the way Kypreos worded it, as being "shopped" brings to mind the notion that they are actively dangling this player or players as an asset to deal.

I don't think it would make much sense to deal JVR for a #1 C, seems like a 2 steps forward, 1 step back sort of thing.  He's extremely valuable to the team right now because of how cap-friendly his contract is.  To me, he's someone you keep to build around because of that.  Hard to find talent like his on that cheap of a deal through his prime years without drafting it or getting lucky.

 

[losveratos]

Also to give an example of what I would try to trade JVR for, I'll give my best try here.

JVR to Colorado for O'Reilly

Reasons it might happen for them:
They have a log jam at center.
They are weak on the wing.
He's young enough to suit their core.
They can resign Statsny to make up for losing ROR.

Reason for us:
He's a #1 Center. Been a while.

 

[Redleaf]

Also to give an example of what I would try to trade JVR for, I'll give my best try here.

JVR to Colorado for O'Reilly

Reasons it might happen for them:
They have a log jam at center.
They are weak on the wing.
He's young enough to suit their core.
They can resign Statsny to make up for losing ROR.

Reason for us:
He's a #1 Center. Been a while.

I don't think the Leafs make that deal for a number of reasons. The biggest being the chemistry between him and Kessel. Why take away a sure thing for one that may not be? That first line has clicked at an outstanding pace this past season with Bozak centering it. You just don't break apart something that works that well.

If they want a centre for the second line, than you don't upset the first line to do it. ROR would be a great addition to the Leafs, but not at the expense our top line winger.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I break the 1st line up through Bozak.  They need to somehow get a #1 C to go anywhere, hopefully they can do it without getting rid of JVR.

 

[losveratos]

Also to give an example of what I would try to trade JVR for, I'll give my best try here.

JVR to Colorado for O'Reilly

Reasons it might happen for them:
They have a log jam at center.
They are weak on the wing.
He's young enough to suit their core.
They can resign Statsny to make up for losing ROR.

Reason for us:
He's a #1 Center. Been a while.

I don't think the Leafs make that deal for a number of reasons. The biggest being the chemistry between him and Kessel. Why take away a sure thing for one that may not be? That first line has clicked at an outstanding pace this past season with Bozak centering it. You just don't break apart something that works that well.

If they want a centre for the second line, than you don't upset the first line to do it. ROR would be a great addition to the Leafs, but not at the expense our top line winger.

A few things to think about though before you poo poo my idea!

JVR is 25 ROR is 23
Despite being younger ROR has played 21 more games than JVR
ROR's best season (points) is better than JVR's and he did it without a PPG Winger
We're not getting a #1 center without losing a piece we didn't want to
This will free up Kadri to be traded for another decent piece (or holland or not resign bolland or perhaps ship off bozak ++ to get something good)

 

[Redleaf]

I break the 1st line up through Bozak.  They need to somehow get a #1 C to go anywhere, hopefully they can do it without getting rid of JVR.

The best way to do that is by keeping Bozak around. At least for a while.

That top line of Kessel and JVR could have had Jay McClement centering them and they'd still probably put up the points. But I'd wouldn't trade away Bozak until I was certain that that line still fires up with someone else at centre first.

Theres always a chance the new guy they get just doesn't click with Kessel and JVR for some reason. Plus Bozak could be useful as a second or third line centre.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I break the 1st line up through Bozak.  They need to somehow get a #1 C to go anywhere, hopefully they can do it without getting rid of JVR.

The best way to do that is by keeping Bozak around. At least for a while.

That top line of Kessel and JVR could have had Jay McClement centering them and they'd still probably put up the points. But I'd wouldn't trade away Bozak until I was certain that line still fires up with someone else at centre first.

Theres always a chance the new guy they get just doesn't click with Kessel and JVR for some reason. Plus Bozak could be useful as a second or third line centre.

I'm fine with keeping him as a 2nd/3rd line C.  I don't dislike him, I just don't think he's good enough to match up game in, game out against the other top lines/players in the league, offensively and defensively.  His PPG is more in line with a 2nd line player despite playing 1st line minutes. 

I don't think there should be any concern Kessel wouldn't work with another C.  That was the concern when he was separated from Savard right? Savard, Bozak, Pavelski, I don't think it matters.  He's equally skilled setting up or shooting so it shouldn't matter who his C is for his points, but the C should matter for the team as a whole.

 

[Redleaf]

Also to give an example of what I would try to trade JVR for, I'll give my best try here.

JVR to Colorado for O'Reilly

Reasons it might happen for them:
They have a log jam at center.
They are weak on the wing.
He's young enough to suit their core.
They can resign Statsny to make up for losing ROR.

Reason for us:
He's a #1 Center. Been a while.

I don't think the Leafs make that deal for a number of reasons. The biggest being the chemistry between him and Kessel. Why take away a sure thing for one that may not be? That first line has clicked at an outstanding pace this past season with Bozak centering it. You just don't break apart something that works that well.

If they want a centre for the second line, than you don't upset the first line to do it. ROR would be a great addition to the Leafs, but not at the expense our top line winger.

A few things to think about though before you poo poo my idea!

JVR is 25 ROR is 23
Despite being younger ROR has played 21 more games than JVR
ROR's best season (points) is better than JVR's and he did it without a PPG Winger
We're not getting a #1 center without losing a piece we didn't want to
This will free up Kadri to be traded for another decent piece (or holland or not resign bolland or perhaps ship off bozak ++ to get something good)

Numbers aside, we know JVR works well with Kessel. We don't know if ROR does or doesn't. Age and production are both similar. JVR holds the advantage in size, and ROR may hold the defensive advantage. Otherwise they're a wash, except their positions. Like I said, the chemistry issue would be the biggest obstacle to overcome if I were contemplating making that deal as Leaf GM. The upside just isn't big enough to make the trade.

 

[losveratos]

Also to give an example of what I would try to trade JVR for, I'll give my best try here.

JVR to Colorado for O'Reilly

Reasons it might happen for them:
They have a log jam at center.
They are weak on the wing.
He's young enough to suit their core.
They can resign Statsny to make up for losing ROR.

Reason for us:
He's a #1 Center. Been a while.

I don't think the Leafs make that deal for a number of reasons. The biggest being the chemistry between him and Kessel. Why take away a sure thing for one that may not be? That first line has clicked at an outstanding pace this past season with Bozak centering it. You just don't break apart something that works that well.

If they want a centre for the second line, than you don't upset the first line to do it. ROR would be a great addition to the Leafs, but not at the expense our top line winger.

A few things to think about though before you poo poo my idea!

JVR is 25 ROR is 23
Despite being younger ROR has played 21 more games than JVR
ROR's best season (points) is better than JVR's and he did it without a PPG Winger
We're not getting a #1 center without losing a piece we didn't want to
This will free up Kadri to be traded for another decent piece (or holland or not resign bolland or perhaps ship off bozak ++ to get something good)

Numbers aside, we know JVR works well with Kessel. We don't know if ROR does or doesn't. Age and production are both similar. JVR holds the advantage in size, and ROR may hold the defensive advantage. Otherwise they're a wash, except their positions. Like I said, the chemistry issue would be the biggest obstacle to overcome if I were contemplating making that deal as Leaf GM. The upside just isn't big enough to make the trade.

Fair enough. I'm just of the opinion that JVR is almost topped out. At say 27-28yrs old I think at best on a career year we're looking at 35-40g 80p and I don't think he'll do that more than twice. After that he'll toil around 70ish points until he starts putting aging numbers besides 0 after 3. Now for a left winger.. that's fantastic, don't get me wrong. I love the guy. But I honestly believe ROR is gonna break out bigger this year or next. I'm thinking 90 points won't be impossible and I think he'd be PPG (more or less) consistently. It's also much better position to have a player in than left wing. I think we'd be getting ROR just before his value skyrockets and we'd be trading JVR a little before his value caps.

So I agree that we'd be selling JVR a bit early in terms of absolute value. But if we cold get ROR I think the upside is higher than JVR at his best. I also think that Kessel can gel with anyone that doesn't hog the puck too too much and ROR isn't that guy.

I know these are bold statements but they're just my opinion. I could be hella wrong. I'll make sure I eat a shoe later if I turn out to be wrong and ROR stays pretty much as is now