dappleganger
Active member
Andy said:
Really seems like the type of moves the Leafs used to do.
Duchene & Turris traded
- Thread starter herman
- Start date
Really seems like the type of moves the Leafs used to do.
Kin
New member
In the "Senators make really puzzling trades" department I think you have to include trading Silfverberg, a 1st and a prospect for Ryan as well as trading what looks like a pretty good prospect for Burrows.
As for it all having to crash down, I think what's saved them is having some exceptional drafts(Leafs fans flip their lids over getting an ok player like Brown in the 6th, imagine how we'd react to Hoffman and Stone), generally being pretty good at drafting and stockpiling picks at the right moment. Even with all the trades they still have 3 1st rounders and 3 second rounders in their system from the last three drafts.
As for it all having to crash down, I think what's saved them is having some exceptional drafts(Leafs fans flip their lids over getting an ok player like Brown in the 6th, imagine how we'd react to Hoffman and Stone), generally being pretty good at drafting and stockpiling picks at the right moment. Even with all the trades they still have 3 1st rounders and 3 second rounders in their system from the last three drafts.
Andy007
Active member
Yea, Stone and Hoffman as 6th and 5th round picks certainly helps and, well, Erik Karsslon ftw.
Just taking a look at their last 8 or 9 drafts and they don't have a lot to show for their early round picks (Zabinejad, Lazar, Cowen, Noesen, Puempel, Ceci, Bowers were all 1sts) and two of those drafts they didn't have any 1st round picks. I guess they really have benefited by solid later round drafting + whatever deal Anderson made with the hockey gods.
Just taking a look at their last 8 or 9 drafts and they don't have a lot to show for their early round picks (Zabinejad, Lazar, Cowen, Noesen, Puempel, Ceci, Bowers were all 1sts) and two of those drafts they didn't have any 1st round picks. I guess they really have benefited by solid later round drafting + whatever deal Anderson made with the hockey gods.
Coco-puffs
New member
CarltonTheBear said:
Some things to consider:
- They also got to dump Hammond salary. That in itself isn't worth a 3rd round pick, but might have been an upgrade from a lower round pick to take the salary.
- Contract situation matters here. They were going to lose Turris at the end of this season for nothing (they didn't want to commit long-term to him). They have Duchene for at least another year.
- No matter if the prospects/picks Colorado get from Ottawa turn out or not, I think this deal will be judged by the Sens ability to re-sign Duchene. If they can't, then they paid a steep price to delay the inevitable
bustaheims
Active member
Coco-puffs said:
Maybe, but I have a hard time believing that Ottawa wouldn't have been able to get Turris on a similar deal to what he signed with the Preds as part of the trade. They may not have wanted to commit to him for 7 years - which is what he was supposedly asking for - but they were trying to negotiate an extension with him, so they were definitely interested in keeping him around. I'm pretty confident that, faced with the choice of losing him for nothing or signing him to a reasonable 6 year deal, they sign that deal every time.
Coco-puffs said:
Duchene, Brassard, and Karlsson are all pending UFAs at the same time. That'll be a big test for them.
Andy said:
AND Bobby Ryan at $7.25mil. But the goaltending thing is really big. Anderson will be 39 years old and have 1-year left on his contract. If they don't have a successor in place by then it's going to be awful tough to get those guys to commit long-term.
Coco-puffs
New member
bustaheims said:
Yeah, we don't know for sure. But I got the sense the Sens didn't want to sign him for 6+ years at this point in time. Could that have changed come the end of this season where they haven't gotten anything back for the asset? Maybe. Sounds like Dorion wanted Duchene from the moment he became GM and turned an asset he wasn't comfortable signing long-term as part of the package to get him.
http://www.tsn.ca/how-did-it-come-to-this-with-kyle-turris-1.906604
WhatIfGodWasALeaf
Active member
FWIW Dorion said this morning that Turris never entertained a 6 year deal from Ottawa, he was firm on 7 or 8.
bustaheims
Active member
WhatIfGodWasALeaf said:
I mean, the fact that he signed a 6 year deal pretty quickly with the Preds calls that into question.
bustaheims
Active member
Coco-puffs said:
He was definitely fully on the Duchene train, but I don't buy that he wasn't comfortable signing Turris long-term - just not 7+ seasons.
WhatIfGodWasALeaf
Active member
bustaheims said:
Sure, but I'd be surprised if Dorion just flat out lied like that though, especially when it's something easily fact-checked by reporters who can speak to Turris.
It could be a case of Turris being much more enthusiastic about playing in Nashville.
Honestly, who would blame him? I think the Preds run last year opened a lot of eyes to how awesome that market is off the ice.
Coco-puffs
New member
bustaheims said:
Not necessarily. Just because a guy will sign a particular deal with one team doesn't mean he'll sign it elsewhere. Maybe he doesn't like it in Ottawa as much as some people would assume. Maybe he wanted 7/8 years and would have waited for it to happen on the open market this summer instead of taking 6 in Ottawa.
Then you get a call from Nashville saying "we are going to trade for you if you agree to a deal". And you're like, well shit, this team has a great chance at a cup in the next few years... I'll take one year less to sign with them and get out of this ongoing contract-situation talk here in Ottawa.
bustaheims
Active member
WhatIfGodWasALeaf said:
GMs misrepresent failed negotiations all the time, and reporters generally don't bother to follow up with the players about them since the players will generally give a canned answer about "I'm a member of X team now," etc.
bustaheims
Active member
Coco-puffs said:
Sorry, I just don't buy that.
Coco-puffs
New member
bustaheims said:
What exactly don't you buy? That guys will take different deals with different teams???
bustaheims
Active member
Coco-puffs said:
The whole theory that he would only take 7/8 years from the sens to not test the market. I don't buy that he wouldn't been open to 6 years as negotiations progressed.
Coco-puffs
New member
bustaheims said:
Well, you've said you don't necessarily believe Dorion when he says 6 yr deal was never offered from Turris' camp but it doesn't sound like anything other than 7+ years was on the table from him. So sure, maybe Turris contract demands come down later- but if the guy you've been negotiating with for months keeps saying "7" and you don't want to go that long, then maybe the right thing is to trade him instead of seeing if he'll change his mind. Especially if you feel you are getting an upgrade (despite the extra assets you are sending along).
https://twitter.com/DavidAmber/status/927593497514860544
I saw a number of people write that the Turris contract came together pretty quickly, which was a fair assumption to make but it seems like that wasn't the case.
I saw a number of people write that the Turris contract came together pretty quickly, which was a fair assumption to make but it seems like that wasn't the case.