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Flyers @ Leafs - Feb. 20th, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050

bustaheims said:
He's a good example of both how valuable mid round picks can be in the right hands and how teams find top pairing defencemen later in the draft.

Also a good example of how size doesn't trump talent. Granted I don't remember hearing a single thing about Gostisbehere in his draft year but I'd guess if he were 180 lbs instead of 160 lbs he probably wouldn't have gone in the 3rd round. He was 5th in the NCAA in points among U19 players in his draft year. He outscored Biggs that year when both of them were 18 years old and playing their freshmen years.
 
Joe S. said:
I don't really mean to be an ass but the reality it's it's teams lacking out and discovering top pairing defenceman in later rounds.

I'm assuming that you meant "lucking" out but I gotta give the Flyers credit here. I'm looking up draft rankings from that year and none of the top-100 or 120 lists I can find have him mentioned. Central Scouting had him ranked 148th among just North American skaters. The Flyers picked him 78th overall, so they took a pretty big reach/risk on the guy and it worked out for them. They must have seen something that others didn't.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
Joe S. said:
I don't really mean to be an ass but the reality it's it's teams lacking out and discovering top pairing defenceman in later rounds.

I'm assuming that you meant "lucking" out but I gotta give the Flyers credit here. I'm looking up draft rankings from that year and none of the top-100 or 120 lists I can find have him mentioned. Central Scouting had him ranked 148th among just North American skaters. The Flyers picked him 78th overall, so they took a pretty big reach/risk on the guy and it worked out for them. They must have seen something that others didn't.

This is from a Sportsnet article on him:

Gostisbehere spent three years at Union College where he was teammates with current Calgary Flames forward Josh Jooris. This is where NHL scouts first noticed him, however early in his collegiate career it certainly wasn?t apparent Gostisbehere would make a significant impact in the NHL.

?Believe me, it wasn?t one of those things where you go, ?There?s a guy, he?s going to be a player,? it wasn?t like that at all,? Flyers director of player development John Riley recently told the team?s website. ?I don?t think he weighed 150 pounds. I mean, you saw him as a pretty good little player, but that was the extent of it. This was just some kid whose name you couldn?t pronounce who demonstrated some qualities like agility and puck moving, but not to the degree like you said, ?Alright, we got this Shayne Gostisbehere.??

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/person-of-interest-flyers-rookie-sensation-shayne-gostisbehere/
 
Potvin29 said:
This is from a Sportsnet article on him:

Gostisbehere spent three years at Union College where he was teammates with current Calgary Flames forward Josh Jooris. This is where NHL scouts first noticed him, however early in his collegiate career it certainly wasn?t apparent Gostisbehere would make a significant impact in the NHL.

?Believe me, it wasn?t one of those things where you go, ?There?s a guy, he?s going to be a player,? it wasn?t like that at all,? Flyers director of player development John Riley recently told the team?s website. ?I don?t think he weighed 150 pounds. I mean, you saw him as a pretty good little player, but that was the extent of it. This was just some kid whose name you couldn?t pronounce who demonstrated some qualities like agility and puck moving, but not to the degree like you said, ?Alright, we got this Shayne Gostisbehere.??

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/person-of-interest-flyers-rookie-sensation-shayne-gostisbehere/

That stories a little misleading, that quote was describing what the Flyers' first impression of him was as a 15/16-year old in high school. Came from a story on Philly's team site here: http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=869339

Other quotes from there:

?Shayne had grown,? recalls Riley. ?He still probably was a buck-fifty, but he was now 5-10 or 5-10 1/2 and his intelligence with the puck was [working] at the college level.

?So then the question, as it is for everybody you look at, is, ?Will this translate to the pro game at some point?? There were these -- you want to call them clouds? -- hanging over him. He?s already been through one draft, he?s undersized, from Florida, and there?s never been a player from Florida in the NHL. Plus, he?s from Union College, which isn?t what Union College is in hockey today.

?I mean, there were all these reasons why he shouldn?t be [a prospect] but you leave the building scratching your head, saying, ?The little guy is pretty good,

?I just kept coming back to his hockey IQ, his agility, his skating ability, and the fact that he could shoot the puck. I mean, at that size, how did he get so much torque on it? But he did.

?I probably saw him 10 or 11 times. After one of his games, against Cornell, I got a video, sent it to [Flyers Director of Scouting] Chris Pryor and said, ?You need to watch this.? That video was one of the things that got Sarge (Pryor) on board.

?We had several conversations about where [Gostisbehere] might fit into the landscape. As the year progressed, he went from maybe seventh round to sixth round, to ok, maybe fifth round or fourth.

?I give [Pryor] an awful lot of the credit. I was a regional scout, and it?s your job to promote the guys that are in your area, same as Todd Hearty would speak up for a kid in Quebec. You become a little attached, root for your guys. But it was Sarge who sold Homer (GM Paul Holmgren) on Shayne. And our group does a great job of [ranking] guys in the right spots.?

Obviously, like with literally every single draft pick, there's an element of luck here. But they still identified a player because of his hockey IQ and skills and not because of his size or background. And they drafted him higher than probably many other teams would have. It was a solid draft selection.
 
Joe S. said:
I don't really mean to be an ass but the reality it's it's teams lucking out and discovering top pairing defenceman in later rounds.

Teams find top pairing outside the first round too frequently for it just to be "lucking out." Some scouts see things that others don't.
 
bustaheims said:
Teams find top pairing outside the first round too frequently for it just to be "lucking out." Some scouts see things that others don't.

But for it to be a function of skill and not luck wouldn't it be about the same teams finding those types of players? I mean, Philly also drafted Kevin Marshall a couple spots over PK Subban.

Obviously every player will have some scouts in their corner and I buy the idea that top defensemen coming from where they do in the draft tells us that there's probably a greater gap on scouting opinion on defensemen than forwards but if something is a skill it's repeatable, right?
 

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