Game 60. Devs versus Leavs. Criticality.

[Sudafederov]

It's interesting with goalies.  They have to prove themselves when they first enter the league.  Then, they have to do it all over again when the 29 other NHL teams amass a good sized video library and try to exploit the goalie's weaknesses.

 

[Bender]

Can we bring Scrivens back up? Or maybe scrap going for Nash and get a goalie? Bernier anyone?

Why do people want Bernier when he's in the same boat as Reimer and Gus? Halak is where it's at, his numbers have always been good and looks to be expendable with the emergence of Elliott

 

[Tigger]

I think Allaire has been passed by, I really do.

Passed by how?

His teachings on position. He plays the percentages but everyone knows where to shoot on Allaire type goalies. There's no adjustment to their game. These guys drop as soon as a shot comes....heck even before it. There are so many times a goalie can just stand there and let it hit him but they've been taught to drop on everything. I think he's set in his ways and teaches "his" style instead of tweaking the way they play already. I found Gus to be more reactionary before Allaire and now he and Reims don't even move on some goals because they're in position "A".  He's turned them into shot blockers instead of trying to utilize all their strengths. For 2 big guys, Reims and Gus look small in there to me, and Reimer looks like Giggy this year, all bent over and stuff.
That's just the way I see it.....

Everyone knows where to shoot on 'Allaire type' goalies? That doesn't ring true to me at all, I've read stuff like that, Reimer was offended by Tampa saying that last year to which Gigeure answered...

?I?ve heard that stuff before,? he smiled. ?Francois? goalies have a style. We are more shot blockers. We play the odds and it?s an extremely tough way to play. You really have to use your legs.

?But just look at Francois? resume. He?s a future Hall of Famer. He changed the entire way the game is played for goalies ? the equipment, the style, everything.?

I think that was more gamesmanship from the Bolts than anything else, I haven't seen anything solid about a school of goaltending, individual goalies, sure.

I think there might be a little bit of a case to be made with Jonas as he has more of a reactionary ability that seems to get suppressed when just playing the odds but if you noticed Luongo the other night he was way deep in his crease and making pretty good saves, positioning is one thing, being able to battle and stop the puck is another.

Luongo is a long time student of Allaire and started to play deeper in his crease to control rebounds as well, something attributed to Melansen but which, curiously, Francois was urging Reimer back in '09. ( Melansen was hired in the summer of 2010 )

Jonas himself had this to say back in February...

He said Leafs goaltending coach Fran?ois Allaire has worked with him on ?pretty much everything,? but especially on the importance of positional play.

?The best game you have is when no one really thinks there are any scoring chances, because you stop them on your chest all the time instead of being all over,? Gustavsson said. ?Try to make the game more simple by being in the right position.?

We weren't questioning Allaire a whole bunch back then either.

Also Reimer was way out on a couple goals in that game against Vancouver too and it didn't seem to matter.

It's not surprising to me at all that the goalie coach is being questioned here after a string of bad starts, though that has more to do with Leaf fans than anything else, but I have a hunch that Allaire isn't the root cause.

This is a nice little interview with Ulmer and Allaire from back in 2010...

ULMER: Your coaching style is sometimes called rigid.
ALLAIRE: I coach different goalies differently, but I work with a definite set of principles. I explain my principles but I am open to different ways of doing it. Goalies come in all different sizes, body types, backgrounds and with different histories. There are different ways of getting things done. Jonas Hiller and Jean-Sebastien Giguerre, for example, had two different ways of operating.

The cornerstone of everything is this: if there is a pass inside the zone my goalie has to be able to push and stop and be ready at the same time the guy receives the puck. That?s not easy, especially on the power play where a goalie has six, seven, eight passes before the shot. The way you skate and move determines a lot of what happens after the shot.

 

[Tigger]

This is a nice interview with Giguere from last November on After Hours, around 7 minutes in they show some horrid goals he let in before he went to Anaheim and he credits Francois with saving his career. Food for thought in terms of development for two relatively inexperienced goalies with the Leafs right now.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-fLe8A2fg8[/youtube]

 

[hockeyfan1]

FWIW, I cant remember where I read it today (and I'm paraphrasing here), but Chico Resch said that he sees the Leafs goalies as being fundametally out of position.  He said he analyzed a bunch of the goals Reimer let in and that he was way too deep in his net and thats something Allaire preaches.  He said if Reimer was out more he'd make the save.

Anyways, like I said I can't remember where I read it but more and more it's becoming increasingly clear that the Leafs have some MAJOR goaltending issues... once again.

This thing about positioning, I began to notice it myself, and wondered if Reimer's and Gustavvson's problems stem from their positional, or rather, non-positional goaltending stance.


If Resch is right, then, the Leafs organization needs to do something about Allaire....our goaltenders are simply too predictable.  Teams seem to know how to score on them, considering that it's all too often that Reimer and Gus allow a questionnable (or 'soft') goal.


Not only do the Leafs have a "MAJOR goaltending issue", they definitely have one in Allaire!

 

[Sudafederov]

No dog in this fight, but more opinions...

http://www.thestar.com/article/1089272--feschuk-monster-must-remember-to-dance-with-girl-he-brought

If goaltending is largely mental, it?s also highly technical. Jon Elkin, a Toronto-based goaltending coach to many pros, most notably Phoenix?s Mike Smith, said he watched Gustavsson at a morning skate earlier this week and came away unimpressed.

?When a shot?s coming he?s just dropping tight into a butterfly hoping the puck hits him. That?s a strong philosophy for pucks that are close to you and there?s no angle. But when pucks are far away, you still have to be an athlete and react to the puck,? said Elkin. ?That combination of just dropping right away and not staying active is really hurting him.?

Some contend that the ?blocking? style of which Leafs goalie coach Francois Allaire is a leading proponent isn?t a good match for Gustavsson because it doesn?t play to his strengths.

?When the Leafs fell in love with the Monster, he was playing that athletic, explosive style in Europe. And then when he came here, and (Allaire) has tried to change him,? McKichan said. ?You can?t think when you?re a goalie. You have to react and play your game and deploy your abilities. If you?re so concerned with fitting into a mould, your focus becomes fitting into the mould instead of stopping the puck.?

McKichan, it could be argued, has an axe to grind. He was Allaire?s predecessor in Leafland. But McKichan said his only quarrel is philosophical, that the reactive style he still teaches at his thriving goaltending school in Strathroy, Ont., simply runs counter to that of Allaire?s drop-and-block brand.

Certainly there are others who believe that Gustavsson and Allaire aren?t an ideal match.

?Francois Allaire is one of the best ever, and it?s the same philosophy being taught to (Ben) Scrivens and Reimer, and I think they?re comporting themselves quite well,? said Elkin. ?But not every style is for every goaltender.?

Added Jamie McLennan, the former NHL goalie and TSN analyst: ?I don?t think (Gustavsson) has been able to adopt Allaire?s style completely.?

Some observers have noted that Gustavsson was never better as an NHLer than in the post-Olympic stretch in 2010 when he won an NHL career-high seven in a row. He was good then, the theory goes, because he was fresh from spending time with Erik Granqvist, his longtime goalie coach and friend. Granqvist, in a telephone interview from Sweden, said he doesn?t buy that theory. He called Allaire ?one of the best goalie coaches in the world.?

Granqvist did concede that Gustavsson, in attempting to adjust his game to the NHL style, may have lost some of the essence of what got him there in the first place.

?It?s like a golfer,? Granqvist said. ?If you change your swing and you focus only on the technique, then you lose a little bit of the instinct and the touch that made you good in the beginning.?

 

[Tigger]

A couple things that jump out at me from that article.

First off, I read it, considered it and realized it was Feschuk after... thanks, I broke my rule...

Anywho, the article is from Nov 18 and there were far more viable criticisms at the time ( last nights game notwithstanding ) when Jonas was having a tough time for a variety of reasons, after that article was published Jonas won his next 4 and had a pretty good record on the whole after that, prompting sound applause from Burke and staff.

I think the truth is somewhere in there though, that a 'drop and block' style isn't completely right for Jonas, though I contend that's not the entirety of Allaire's system, certainly the athleticism and reactionary capability of a goalie is intertwined with the better ones.

If I just juxtapose a few of the comments from that article...

Elkin..."But for some reason those goalies (J.S. Guigere et al) were able to take part of the blocking strategy and combine it with some athleticism and some reacting as well. For some reason, Gustavsson hasn?t been able to find that fine line.?

Mclennan...?I don?t think (Gustavsson) has been able to adopt Allaire?s style completely.?

Weekes..." But honestly, based on his frame, I think he needs to spend some more time in the gym. . . . The toll the game takes on you physically ? I don?t think his body is complete yet.?

Gustavsson..."Over here, it?s more about getting the timing and learning where and when to be.?

...I think we see a goalie who's not really had the development time due to illness and needs the work to get his game to a point where he feels comfortable enough to just forget about it during play, he's still thinking it in a lot of ways.

One thing I don't see in that article is a solid refutation of Allaire on the whole either and the comments about Jonas weren't all that surprising to me, generally.

From Nov 19 to Jan 31 Jonas went 12-6-1 with a pretty heavy workload in November and January, Reimers return in December was pretty unspectacular in terms of success but the Leafs seemed determined to play him ( Reimer had 11 starts, 3-4-3 and 1 incomplete where he gave up 3 and got yanked to Jonas' 3 gp, 1-2, and one of the gwg against was a 5 on 3 ppg after coming into relieve Reimer against Florida...). Not entirely sure what to make of that but, there it is, I think he just needs time as he's shown signs that he can put it all together and play an effective hybrid style between his innate abilities and the positional play his coach is teaching him.

 

[hockeyfan1]

I think he just needs time as he's shown signs that he can put it all together and play an effective hybrid style between his innate abilities and the positional play his coach is teaching him.

As I've said a few times before, if Gus plays more (putting together a string of games), he'll get sharper and more instinctive in his technique.


The question begs...does Wilson want to give him the reins?  Judging by the goaltending choices of late, doesn't look like.


Expect Reimer to be in net for the Sharks game.  I'd bet on it.

 

[maplesyrup]

I actually laughed so loud when Gus directed that in, I woke my wife up  :-\  What a mess he is... and the entire state of our goaltending for that matter. 

 

[WalterSobchak]

Owuya or trade please Brian.

I feel terrible for Jonas, he was epic in the third and then absolutely killed any good will he had regained with that OT stinker.

The fact that one specifically happened in OT is such a hard pill to swallow, especially given the effort put forth by the group to eventually tie it.

Not to totally defend Gus on the OT goal, as you are correct, he played a decent game, but how does Ilya Kovalchuk get to take the puck up from his own blueline(looking half gassed as well) and deke three players to pass it to the player who sets up the guy who shoots the puck and scores the winning goal, but all we are doing here is blaming Gus. I think that was a total team let down on the OT goal.

 

[Zee]

Owuya or trade please Brian.

I feel terrible for Jonas, he was epic in the third and then absolutely killed any good will he had regained with that OT stinker.

The fact that one specifically happened in OT is such a hard pill to swallow, especially given the effort put forth by the group to eventually tie it.

Not to totally defend Gus on the OT goal, as you are correct, he played a decent game, but how does Ilya Kovalchuk get to take the puck up from his own blueline(looking half gassed as well) and deke three players to pass it to the player who sets up the guy who shoots the puck and scores the winning goal, but all we are doing here is blaming Gus. I think that was a total team let down on the OT goal.

C'mon now.  Do you expect a team to not allow ANY shots on goal?  Actually the Leafs did their job there, the shot was GOING WIDE.  Gustavsson put it himself.  There's NOBODY to blame on the winning goal but the goalie.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Owuya or trade please Brian.

I feel terrible for Jonas, he was epic in the third and then absolutely killed any good will he had regained with that OT stinker.

The fact that one specifically happened in OT is such a hard pill to swallow, especially given the effort put forth by the group to eventually tie it.

Not to totally defend Gus on the OT goal, as you are correct, he played a decent game, but how does Ilya Kovalchuk get to take the puck up from his own blueline(looking half gassed as well) and deke three players to pass it to the player who sets up the guy who shoots the puck and scores the winning goal, but all we are doing here is blaming Gus. I think that was a total team let down on the OT goal.

Total team let down because they let a really good player gain the zone and then eventually allow a long point shot with no screen?

 

[brothert]

Owuya or trade please Brian.

I feel terrible for Jonas, he was epic in the third and then absolutely killed any good will he had regained with that OT stinker.

The fact that one specifically happened in OT is such a hard pill to swallow, especially given the effort put forth by the group to eventually tie it.

Not to totally defend Gus on the OT goal, as you are correct, he played a decent game, but how does Ilya Kovalchuk get to take the puck up from his own blueline(looking half gassed as well) and deke three players to pass it to the player who sets up the guy who shoots the puck and scores the winning goal, but all we are doing here is blaming Gus. I think that was a total team let down on the OT goal.

Total team let down because they let a really good player gain the zone and then eventually allow a long point shot with no screen?

I feel sorry for Gus, If he doesn't make the unbelievable glove save seconds before that goal, nobody would be having this conversation.  He's definitely not sharp, but I would put that down to not getting any regular stretches in net.  I think Reimer's played himself into the backup position but Wilson hasn't realized it yet.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Owuya or trade please Brian.

I feel terrible for Jonas, he was epic in the third and then absolutely killed any good will he had regained with that OT stinker.

The fact that one specifically happened in OT is such a hard pill to swallow, especially given the effort put forth by the group to eventually tie it.

Not to totally defend Gus on the OT goal, as you are correct, he played a decent game, but how does Ilya Kovalchuk get to take the puck up from his own blueline(looking half gassed as well) and deke three players to pass it to the player who sets up the guy who shoots the puck and scores the winning goal, but all we are doing here is blaming Gus. I think that was a total team let down on the OT goal.

Total team let down because they let a really good player gain the zone and then eventually allow a long point shot with no screen?

I feel sorry for Gus, If he doesn't make the unbelievable glove save seconds before that goal, nobody would be having this conversation.  He's definitely not sharp, but I would put that down to not getting any regular stretches in net.  I think Reimer's played himself into the backup position but Wilson hasn't realized it yet.

I don't remember an unbelievable glove save seconds before?  I thought Kovalchuk missed the net on a one-timer attempt, and then it went back to the point after that.

He made a number of great saves in the third.

 

[L K]

Owuya or trade please Brian.

I feel terrible for Jonas, he was epic in the third and then absolutely killed any good will he had regained with that OT stinker.

The fact that one specifically happened in OT is such a hard pill to swallow, especially given the effort put forth by the group to eventually tie it.

Not to totally defend Gus on the OT goal, as you are correct, he played a decent game, but how does Ilya Kovalchuk get to take the puck up from his own blueline(looking half gassed as well) and deke three players to pass it to the player who sets up the guy who shoots the puck and scores the winning goal, but all we are doing here is blaming Gus. I think that was a total team let down on the OT goal.

Total team let down because they let a really good player gain the zone and then eventually allow a long point shot with no screen?

I feel sorry for Gus, If he doesn't make the unbelievable glove save seconds before that goal, nobody would be having this conversation.  He's definitely not sharp, but I would put that down to not getting any regular stretches in net.  I think Reimer's played himself into the backup position but Wilson hasn't realized it yet.

I don't remember an unbelievable glove save seconds before?  I thought Kovalchuk missed the net on a one-timer attempt, and then it went back to the point after that.

He made a number of great saves in the third.

Nah, they showed a replay from behind the net on the Sportsnet feed.  Gus actually made a pretty nice save on that shot that caused it to deflect up and over the net.  I thought Kovalchuk missed the net on the one-timer at first too.

http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20112012/PL020886.HTM

Doesn't make it any less bad of a goal to end the game though.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Nah, they showed a replay from behind the net on the Sportsnet feed.  Gus actually made a pretty nice save on that shot that caused it to deflect up and over the net.  I thought Kovalchuk missed the net on the one-timer at first too.

http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20112012/PL020886.HTM

Doesn't make it any less bad of a goal to end the game though.

Thanks! I probably only watched the original play.