Game 66: Bruins @ Leafs 7:00PM SNET-0

[GhostofPotvin29]

This is what I don't get about this apologist line of thinking.  In one post it is "they're bigger than us what do you expect"...then when I say well that sucks it is "we're not too small and soft to beat them".  The response to criticism oscillates between excuses and denials but when all you want are some results, results that were all but promised, it is infuriating.  It seems the excuses and denials are endless but the results never come. 

This is not about you Burke is blowing the same smoke, mr not a five year rebuild criticizing a lack of patience.  We had it, you spent it.

You said they 'manhandled' us, which I assume meant were more physical/stronger than the Leafs - which I don't think is surprising and I think is likely to be expected coming into a game against Boston.  Looking at the two rosters I would not expect us to 'manhandle' Boston.

Nowhere did I say that because a team is bigger than us that we can't beat them - hence why I said both teams were similar last season and we beat them.  We have enough speed to beat the Bruins, we have played terribly against them this season and let them manhandle us physically and on the scoreboard most times out this season.

I don't think it is apologist to say we are not as big or physical as Boston, it's just common knowledge.

But I have never cared about being labelled an 'apologist' so label away.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Well, at least we weren't embarrassed tonight by the Bruins...

The score was closer but we got manhandled and they took out our #2 scorer

They're bigger than us, and in the case of two of their players, bigger than most of the guys in the league.  What do you expect?  I thought the Leafs were pretty physical and threw their body around more than they usually do, but a lot of our guys just aren't as big and physical as a lot of their guys.

A team tough enough to compete better? We're too soft and small to beat them at our best but I guess it's acceptable to some.

pretty much sums it up.  whos tougher Kessel or Seguin?

It doesn't take a physics course to figure out why Lupul is injured and Kessel isn't (yet, at this point, may I add).

One (Lupul) plays a more 'physical' game, in other words, doesn't avoid the boards, while the other one (Kessel) avoids them at all costs.

Looks like the softer player (Kessel) must be doing something right, and I don't blame him either.  Truly talented players don't venture along the boards too often to get hit, but rather to avoid, in an attempt or in order to outsmart the opposition.

Btw I'm not surprised at all about Lupul.  In fact, was wondering how long it would be before a tough team would hit him hard and awkwardly.  The fact that it was Boston the team that did the damage, goes to show one just how difficult it is to match up against teams like these, for the Leafs.  It shows the shortfall in depth that the Leafs continue to harbour, try as they might, and, might as they try.

 

[hockeyfan1]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2012/03/06/leafs_bruins_recap_march_6/

"You've got enough goals to win the hockey game," said Carlyle. "It's the defensive aspect of it that needs to be improved upon. ... Tonight was just another indication of the amount work that's necessary on the defensive side of (the game) and the compete side of it and 1-on-1 battles side of it.

"Really if we demonstrated the will that was out there in the third period for 60 minutes that was what was required. That was my message."

"If you look where the goals were scored from, those weren't tough enough areas from a defending standpoint for our hockey club," said Carlyle. "I think that we hung the goaltender out to dry in too many situations."

The second period offered a glimpse of the tougher brand of hockey the Leafs are expected to play under Carlyle with bodies flying everywhere and three fights.

"To me, that's the way the game's supposed to b
e played," said Carlyle. "It's supposed to be aggressive, it's supposed to be hard-hitting. If the fighting does occur, then so be it."

"We've got to tighten it up defensively," said forward Tim Connolly. "I like the system in place (from Carlyle). Obviously, his record in the league shows that the system works, so we've just got to execute."

"We're working to get used to the style that he wants to play and the system," said Leafs captain Dion Phaneuf. "I think as a group we've grasped it pretty good in a very short time, the little subtle changes that we have made, and we're going to have to keep working at it."

 

[WalterSobchak]

I love this place and all the volunteer staff here, but this is what is allowed now?

This is considered a legitimate view point and not a troll?

Carltons post or DieWilsons post? DieWilsons post is one that is emotional, Carltons response is clearly sarcastic.

??? Trolling? 

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

Kessel is the first Leaf to hit 70 pts since Mats Sundin did it in 2007/2008.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I love this place and all the volunteer staff here, but this is what is allowed now?

This is considered a legitimate view point and not a troll?

Carltons post or DieWilsons post? DieWilsons post is one that is emotional, Carltons response is clearly sarcastic.

??? Trolling? 

Yeah, I should have been clearer, the DieWilsonDie guy's posts, I mean from the username all the way down to the posted content, the guy is a joke and it reflects badly on this place to let him run wild.

I thought it was obvious to everyone that Carlton is legit.

 

[DieWilsonDie]

I love this place and all the volunteer staff here, but this is what is allowed now?

This is considered a legitimate view point and not a troll?

Carltons post or DieWilsons post? DieWilsons post is one that is emotional, Carltons response is clearly sarcastic.

??? Trolling? 

Yeah, I should have been clearer, the DieWilsonDie guy's posts, I mean from the username all the way down to the posted content, the guy is a joke and it reflects badly on this place to let him run wild.

I thought it was obvious to everyone that Carlton is legit.

People who speak the truth are always made out to be pariahs.  You are only angry because what I stated is 100 percent the truth. 

 

[itsgametime]

all this talk of will, effort and determination...just note that these only get you so far.  MacArthur is oozing in determination but he lacks the size and skill to be a top 6 forward.  Same goes for the other forwards on this team except Kessel, Lupul, Grabo and maybe Kuli

 

[TML fan]

I love this place and all the volunteer staff here, but this is what is allowed now?

This is considered a legitimate view point and not a troll?

Carltons post or DieWilsons post? DieWilsons post is one that is emotional, Carltons response is clearly sarcastic.

??? Trolling? 

Yeah, I should have been clearer, the DieWilsonDie guy's posts, I mean from the username all the way down to the posted content, the guy is a joke and it reflects badly on this place to let him run wild.

I thought it was obvious to everyone that Carlton is legit.

People who speak the truth are always made out to be pariahs.  You are only angry because what I stated is 100 percent the truth.

No, I think it's because you state opinions as though they are undeniable fact and try to shove it down everyone's throat.

 

[pnjunction]

No, I think it's because you state opinions as though they are undeniable fact and try to shove it down everyone's throat.

Oh please this sounds pretty whiny to me.  People state their opinions in a factual manner all of the time.  I don't even see anyone trying to disprove what he said and I'll quote:

Watching the Bruins dominate us is depressing for several reasons.  Firstly, they are the prototypical team that Burke wanted to originally build when he got here.  Secondly, by giving them blue chip assets we've not only significantly assisted them in ending their championship drought, we have to contend them for division supremacy for years to come.  Burke should have been fired for even thinking about trading all those assets for a soft scorer like Kessel.

It is depressing.  Not really a fact, but true for many of us I think.

Burke talked toughness.  Bruins are tough and having success with it, we are soft and suffering.  Hard to dispute, results and reputations speak for themselves.

Seguin is kicking our asses already and it's likely to continue.

The last part goes off the rails a bit.  Seguin was probably not a 'significant' factor in the championship run.  He played alright but I can see downplaying his contributions.

Finally Burke shouldn't have been fired, it's just not going to happen right after being hired no matter how bad he screwed up.  The way I would put it: if the plan was to fast track, he should never have been hired in the first place.

 

[TML fan]

No, I think it's because you state opinions as though they are undeniable fact and try to shove it down everyone's throat.

Oh please this sounds pretty whiny to me.  People state their opinions in a factual manner all of the time.  I don't even see anyone trying to disprove what he said and I'll quote:

Watching the Bruins dominate us is depressing for several reasons.  Firstly, they are the prototypical team that Burke wanted to originally build when he got here.  Secondly, by giving them blue chip assets we've not only significantly assisted them in ending their championship drought, we have to contend them for division supremacy for years to come.  Burke should have been fired for even thinking about trading all those assets for a soft scorer like Kessel.

It is depressing.  Not really a fact, but true for many of us I think.

Burke talked toughness.  Bruins are tough and having success with it, we are soft and suffering.  Hard to dispute, results and reputations speak for themselves.

Seguin is kicking our asses already and it's likely to continue.

The last part goes off the rails a bit.  Seguin was probably not a 'significant' factor in the championship run.  He played alright but I can see downplaying his contributions.

Finally Burke shouldn't have been fired, it's just not going to happen right after being hired no matter how bad he screwed up.  The way I would put it: if the plan was to fast track, he should never have been hired in the first place.

Stating an opinion in a factual manner, and stating one as fact are different. Nobody is going to throw "I think" on top ov every single sentence. That's not how people talk.

Nobody wants to try and disprove what he said because nobody is going to waste time debating with a closed mind. It's easier just to ignore him.

"Seguin kicking our asses" has at least as much to do with the team he plays on as it does with him. I'd like to see how he does by himself against that team, and against Chara. Kessel is kicking his ass in the scoring race. In almost every measurable way, Phil Kessel is a better player.

The Leafs are soft. Nobody disagrees with that.

 

[pnjunction]

Kessel is kicking his ass in the scoring race. In almost every measurable way, Phil Kessel is a better player.

Only because it is difficult to measure defense...  I know plus/minus is flawed but it is a measure and Kessel is 499th at -2 while Seguin is 1st in the league at +35.  Go ahead and blame goaltending and d-men (they are not great) but I'm pretty sure Seguin is better defensively than Kessel regardless.

I'm pretty sure many here have been lamenting the bad defensive play of that line.  Scoring goals is fun and all but you need a goal difference to win games.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I believe I read somewhere yesterday that Kessel and Grabo are competing for the best Corsi numbers on the team right now.  Those are usually a good indicators of defensive performance, the jist of the article was that Kessel is working very hard on his defensive game this year as opposed to other years and is perhaps being hamstrung in that regard by his linemates.

 

[TML fan]

Kessel is kicking his ass in the scoring race. In almost every measurable way, Phil Kessel is a better player.

Only because it is difficult to measure defense...  I know plus/minus is flawed but it is a measure and Kessel is 499th at -2 while Seguin is 1st in the league at +35.  Go ahead and blame goaltending and d-men (they are not great) but I'm pretty sure Seguin is better defensively than Kessel regardless.

I'm pretty sure many here have been lamenting the bad defensive play of that line.  Scoring goals is fun and all but you need a goal difference to win games.

No, not ONLY because. Being able to measure defensive play isn't going to make Seguin any better than Kessel in other areas, but nevertheless, I did qualify my statement with the word "almost".

 

[Sudafederov]

Didn't think Monster had too bad an outing despite the score.

 

[WalterSobchak]

I thought it was obvious to everyone that Carlton is legit.

I am not sure I am reading this correctly. Are you trying to be funny here? I could read this as though you are taking a pop at me. I read Carltons post to be sarcastic, which I pointed out. Nowhere did I say Carlton isn't legit in his opinion. 

 

[DieWilsonDie]

No, I think it's because you state opinions as though they are undeniable fact and try to shove it down everyone's throat.

Oh please this sounds pretty whiny to me.  People state their opinions in a factual manner all of the time.  I don't even see anyone trying to disprove what he said and I'll quote:

Watching the Bruins dominate us is depressing for several reasons.  Firstly, they are the prototypical team that Burke wanted to originally build when he got here.  Secondly, by giving them blue chip assets we've not only significantly assisted them in ending their championship drought, we have to contend them for division supremacy for years to come.  Burke should have been fired for even thinking about trading all those assets for a soft scorer like Kessel.

It is depressing.  Not really a fact, but true for many of us I think.

Burke talked toughness.  Bruins are tough and having success with it, we are soft and suffering.  Hard to dispute, results and reputations speak for themselves.

Seguin is kicking our asses already and it's likely to continue.

The last part goes off the rails a bit.  Seguin was probably not a 'significant' factor in the championship run.  He played alright but I can see downplaying his contributions.

Finally Burke shouldn't have been fired, it's just not going to happen right after being hired no matter how bad he screwed up.  The way I would put it: if the plan was to fast track, he should never have been hired in the first place.

Stating an opinion in a factual manner, and stating one as fact are different. Nobody is going to throw "I think" on top ov every single sentence. That's not how people talk.

Nobody wants to try and disprove what he said because nobody is going to waste time debating with a closed mind. It's easier just to ignore him.

"Seguin kicking our asses" has at least as much to do with the team he plays on as it does with him. I'd like to see how he does by himself against that team, and against Chara. Kessel is kicking his ass in the scoring race. In almost every measurable way, Phil Kessel is a better player.

The Leafs are soft. Nobody disagrees with that.

Closed mind?  Are you serious?  How many times have the Leafs traded away draft picks in the first round only to see us become marginally better in the short term with what we got, only for us to sputter later?  Instead of always looking for a band-aid fix we could have had players like Niedermeyer, Luongo, Rask, Hamilton, Seguin, Parent, and I am sure the list goes on and on.  In the last 7 years the team has made useless, absolutely useless runs when they are all but eliminated from the playoffs and we get stuck with absolutely terrible draft choices who are sold to us like they are blue chip prospects.  Schenn is a bust, Kadri is close to being a bust, Colborne is on the fringe right now, and the only player to show any promise is Gardiner.  The last two players coming to us via trade. 

What is the plan for this team?  Is management going to always be deceived by late runs when the pressure is gone?  Why are they always competing for the 8th and final play off spot in the East when our salary cap is almost pushed to the max?  Most importantly why do we as fans find this acceptable.  Burke's reasoning for re-tooling the team was that a rebuild wasn't necessary, and that Leaf fans don't have the patience to wait idly by for half a decade to watch their team compete for the Stanley Cup, well guess what, its almost been a decade of missing the play offs and absolutely no head way has been made, while all the mistakes of past management is being repeated by Burke and his cronies.  I wonder in 20 or 30 years how many more great players the Leafs will lament not being able to call their own because management was impatient?  This franchise is become a joke, literally, and there is no arguing against that.     


As for Kessel leading Seguin in the scoring race, its a moot point.  Kessel is abysmal against the Bruins, while Seguin already has a Stanley Cup ring, not too mention a significantly higher ceiling than Kessel.  I guarantee you that Seguin will surpass Kessel in point totals in the next season or two, without a doubt.  Kessel maybe the quietest scorer I've seen since Jeff O'Neil.  When the going gets tough he is dogging it.     

 

[TML fan]

Thanks for making my point.

 

[Bullfrog]

As for Kessel leading Seguin in the scoring race, its a moot point.  Kessel is abysmal against the Bruins, while Seguin already has a Stanley Cup ring, not too mention a significantly higher ceiling than Kessel.  I guarantee you that Seguin will surpass Kessel in point totals in the next season or two, without a doubt.  Kessel maybe the quietest scorer I've seen since Jeff O'Neil.  When the going gets tough he is dogging it.   

Seguin has a significantly higher ceiling than Kessel?

 

[L K]

I believe I read somewhere yesterday that Kessel and Grabo are competing for the best Corsi numbers on the team right now.  Those are usually a good indicators of defensive performance, the jist of the article was that Kessel is working very hard on his defensive game this year as opposed to other years and is perhaps being hamstrung in that regard by his linemates.

I think Kessel has worked harder this year than in previous years, but that really has me questioning the validity of a stat when it is calling Kessel our best defensive forward.  He's a big part of the reason why that line get hemmed in their own zone for multiple shifts a game.