Game 8 - Leafs @ Flyers - Monday Oct 24th 2011 - 19:00 EST - 4-2 Loss

[rdowdall]

Well, in my mind, the issue is this - for those teams fighting for the last couple playoff spots, the difference between qualifying for the post season or golfing in early April could very easily come down to the relative quality of each individual back up goalie, especially if that back up starts 20-25 games in the season. With that being said, based on his career with the Leafs, I'm not confident that Gustavsson can perform well enough in that role in order to vault the Leafs into a playoff spot if they're in that position.

But the question still stands. Which back-up goalies are you supremely confident in can play that well? Boucher? Budaj? Hedberg? Mason? Back-up goalies are dice rolls. Gus is as well.

And personally, the way Reimer has played is way more troubling for the team's immediate playoff hopes than Gus. If Reimer isn't flat-out stealing games, the Leafs have a long road.

Reimer can't steal.  It's against his Mennonite upbringing.

 

[Erndog]

No doubt, not to mention coming in cold against the habs.

He's our back up after all.

I think that's sort of the best point about the whole Gus nonsense. How many teams/fans around the league have the "confidence" in their back-ups that some people seem to be demanding of Gus? The Flyers had so much confidence in Bobrovsky they went out and signed Bryzgalov to a hundred jillion dollars or whatever it ended up being.

I don't know.

Thomas/Rask
Luongo/Schneider
Fleury/Johnson
Rinne/Lindback
Miller/Enroth
Vokoun/Neuvirth
Bryzgalov/Bobrovsky
Quick/Bernier

I'd say a lot of the good teams feel quite a bit more comfortable than we do having to go to their backup.

 

[Stebro]

it will be the first leafs game I watch on Swedish tv in many many years, they usually don't show the leafs, but soon they will broadcast all NHL games, so I can watch the leafs all the time ;D So now it will be easier for me to diss everyone

 

[Tigger]

I think that's sort of the best point about the whole Gus nonsense. How many teams/fans around the league have the "confidence" in their back-ups that some people seem to be demanding of Gus? The Flyers had so much confidence in Bobrovsky they went out and signed Bryzgalov to a hundred jillion dollars or whatever it ended up being.

Well, in my mind, the issue is this - for those teams fighting for the last couple playoff spots, the difference between qualifying for the post season or golfing in early April could very easily come down to the relative quality of each individual back up goalie, especially if that back up starts 20-25 games in the season. With that being said, based on his career with the Leafs, I'm not confident that Gustavsson can perform well enough in that role in order to vault the Leafs into a playoff spot if they're in that position.

Wilson probably agrees with you and it's a good point but like Nik says, it seems the expectations of Jonas are pretty high and maybe a little unrealistic.

We discussed the Leafs getting a vet versus going with two pretty inexperienced goalies OTOS and I think the Leafs made the right choice ( early anyways ) given the make up of their team. I imagine the tandem will be evaluated around the 20 game mark or so to see if an adjustment needs to be made and given the Leafs have beaten the teams they need to so far I think that's a fair representation of the urgency required right now.

 

[bustaheims]

But if you don't think there's been a laughable overreaction and criticism of how Gus has played the last two games, well, we'll have to go our separate ways on that.

I guess I just see it differently. I don't think the reaction is entirely based on the last two games, but, rather, a bunch of posters having bottled their criticisms for Gustavsson until having seen him play some, and, after having those performances be underwhelming (though, granted, not entirely his fault, but, underwhelming nonetheless), they've allowed those criticisms to spill out, perhaps with excessive hyperbole, yes, sure, but not without some cause.

 

[freer]

please just play a full game and I will be happy. 3-1 leafs if they do

 

[Kin]

I'd say a lot of the good teams feel quite a bit more comfortable than we do having to go to their backup.

I'd agree that a lot of those teams are more confident that they'll win games with their back-ups but I think that has more to do with the fact that those teams are just better than the Leafs and it's less a reflection on goaltending than it is on the reality of a goaltender's role.

 

[Kin]

I guess I just see it differently. I don't think the reaction is entirely based on the last two games, but, rather, a bunch of posters having bottled their criticisms for Gustavsson until having seen him play some, and, after having those performances be underwhelming (though, granted, not entirely his fault, but, underwhelming nonetheless), they've allowed those criticisms to spill out, perhaps with excessive hyperbole, yes, sure, but not without some cause.

Overreactions I can understand and deal with. Gus hasn't been great. Neither has Reimer. Heck, aside from Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul and maybe Gunnar nobody should be thrilled with anyone right now. Talk of shipping him freight back to Sweden is par for the course.

But it's the criticisms in particular that I find pretty indefensible. He didn't play as badly as people are making it seem and people are harping on him for goals they'd never criticize Reimer for allowing. They're playing amateur psychologists and criticizing his "mental make-up" when, last year, when he was playing well people were over the moon about his competitive spirit.

Again, it's two games. One of which they won. Neither of which can be pinned on him. If that's going to make anyone come off of where they were on him when the season started then they were never being realistic about him.

 

[Erndog]

I'd say a lot of the good teams feel quite a bit more comfortable than we do having to go to their backup.

I'd agree that a lot of those teams are more confident that they'll win games with their back-ups but I think that has more to do with the fact that those teams are just better than the Leafs and it's less a reflection on goaltending than it is on the reality of a goaltender's role.

That could be true.  Give one of those teams Gustavsson and give us their backup and it's quite possible the roles reverse.  Look what Brian Elliott is doing on the Blues this year for example (after having spent last season on 2 bottom feeders).

I just think that today, if I had to play a must-win game, I'd take any of the aforementioned backups over Gustavsson at this point.  I really want Gus to succeed too, but I just don't have much confidence in him right now.

 

[The Red Polar Bear]

I don't know.

Thomas/Rask
Luongo/Schneider
Fleury/Johnson
Rinne/Lindback
Miller/Enroth
Vokoun/Neuvirth
Bryzgalov/Bobrovsky
Quick/Bernier

I'd say a lot of the good teams feel quite a bit more comfortable than we do having to go to their backup.

I don't know, their starter is pretty good, but I don't think that this Luongo guy is good enough to back him up long term. They may be looking to upgrade.

 

[crazyperfectdevil]

i'm not done on the monster yet...there are excuses for why someone hasn't played well..and then there are reasons ..i still feel he falls into the latter category and until the guy can string a few games together without worrying about his heart exploding in his chest ...(hyperbole i know..) i won't change my opinion on that ..as a backup/project I think he's a good one ....I guess I see what cherry was saying about giving him that game against boston ...but that did have loss written all over it ..which made it pretty much impossible to get any confidence moving forward from it .. I'm hoping that his being thrown in against the habs and someone coming up with the win will move him a step in the right direction ....but this game also seems like a guarenteed loss....so i don't know ..anyway..yes..some teams have great backups ...but i feel like they're the minority..especially historically ...he's a risk..but i think he's still one worth risking something on ....i guess i really don't think it'll be the leaf's backup goaltending that's going to sink them...we all know we need reimer in and playing well and i feel the leafs are a lot better off being able to have the monster as a backup ..then say using anderson in ottawa as the primary ..

 

[Tigger]

I'd say a lot of the good teams feel quite a bit more comfortable than we do having to go to their backup.

They probably feel better about their starters and their team in general too though, no?

 

[Kin]

I just think that today, if I had to play a must-win game, I'd take any of the aforementioned backups over Gustavsson at this point.

I might too. But those are very good teams. In most of those cases I'd also take those teams #1 forward over Kessel, #1 defenseman over Phaneuf and #1 goalie over Reimer.

 

[Bullfrog]

...
But if you don't think there's been a laughable overreaction and criticism of how Gus has played the last two games, well, we'll have to go our separate ways on that.

This is where I stand too. Laughable overreaction and criticism is exactly how I'd describe it. He hasn't been great, but he surely has been, say, adequate? 

 

[rdowdall]

I gotta say, I really don't know how the Leafs have 5 wins right now.

 

[maplesyrup]

I gotta say, I really don't know how the Leafs have 5 wins right now.

It's Kessel, Phaneuf, and to a smaller extent, Lupul carrying most of the load. If they played average hockey, yeah, we're probably in trouble.

 

[Kin]

I gotta say, I really don't know how the Leafs have 5 wins right now.

1. Phil Kessel is on pace for a 94 goal, 164 point season.

2. Very good play from their #1 defense pairing

3. They've had a soft schedule.

 

[rdowdall]

I gotta say, I really don't know how the Leafs have 5 wins right now.

1. Phil Kessel is on pace for a 94 goal, 164 point season.

2. Very good play from their #1 defense pairing

3. They've had a soft schedule.

I guess my point is that, if 1 and 2 don't hold up, then this team is in trouble, because three is definitely going to even out over the course of the year.

 

[LittleHockeyFan]

Scrivens has been called up from the Marlies, as per the Toronto Star.....

 

[pnjunction]

I find the comparisons between Toskala, who was 30 with over 100 games NHL experience when he arrived as the presumed starter, and Gustavsson, who was 24 with zero NHL experience when he arrived to start as the backup, particularly entertaining.