Game of Thrones (S6)

[Joe S.]

I don't care if it was predictable. What's wrong with the bad guys losing once in a while in Westeros? BEcasuse so far Dani never loses, so I don't count her.

What I wonder now is what is Littlefinger's cost - he doesn't do anything for free.

 

[Bender]

It was basically the most predictable episode ever, but I still really enjoyed it. The whole episode was just shot terrifically well. Sansa's one bad-ass witch.

I didn't think it was super predictable that everything would basically work out for once.

 

[Bill_Berg]

It was basically the most predictable episode ever, but I still really enjoyed it. The whole episode was just shot terrifically well. Sansa's one bad-ass witch.

I didn't think it was super predictable that everything would basically work out for once.

Ya it never works out. Until now.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I didn't think it was super predictable that everything would basically work out for once.

I think they threw in Rickon's death just so they could say that something bad/unexpected happened. And even that doesn't really matter because seriously who cares about Rickon? But the battles in Meereen and Winterfell played out exactly how everyone expected. I get the good guys don't usually win but did anyone actually think that Jon was going to lose that battle?

 

[Zee]

I didn't think it was super predictable that everything would basically work out for once.

I think they threw in Rickon's death just so they could say that something bad/unexpected happened. And even that doesn't really matter because seriously who cares about Rickon? But the battles in Meereen and Winterfell played out exactly how everyone expected. I get the good guys don't usually win but did anyone actually think that Jon was going to lose that battle?

Rickon was pretty much the throwaway Stark.  Even in the books he's hardly focused on at all.

 

[Bill_Berg]

I didn't think it was super predictable that everything would basically work out for once.

I think they threw in Rickon's death just so they could say that something bad/unexpected happened. And even that doesn't really matter because seriously who cares about Rickon? But the battles in Meereen and Winterfell played out exactly how everyone expected. I get the good guys don't usually win but did anyone actually think that Jon was going to lose that battle?

I expected Jon to win, that's true, but I expected Bolton to flee and then come back in a few episodes and do something horrible. It's the fullness of the good guy's win that was unpredictable. Cue Littlefinger.

 

[TBLeafer]

I don't care if it was predictable. What's wrong with the bad guys losing once in a while in Westeros? BEcasuse so far Dani never loses, so I don't count her.

What I wonder now is what is Littlefinger's cost - he doesn't do anything for free.

Dany 'lost' last season though (or at least a stalemate).  She just barely escaped with Drogon to the Dothraki sea.

 

[herman]

I don't care if it was predictable. What's wrong with the bad guys losing once in a while in Westeros? BEcasuse so far Dani never loses, so I don't count her.

What I wonder now is what is Littlefinger's cost - he doesn't do anything for free.

Dany's lost a few times before (maybe not directly). Khal Drogo + baby getting wrecked by a witch doctor, the fighting pit debacle that she was only saved from by Drogon, Sons of Harpy getting Barristan Selmy...

Littlefinger's payment will be pervy. The preview shows him accosting Sansa in the godswood. I suspect it will be something along the lines of uniting the North with the Vale in marriage (and the Riverlands by extension), i.e. Petyr's wish-fulfillment fantasy of a relationship with Catelyn via Sansa. Littlefinger is all about manipulating the direction that power flows and accumulates.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

As Tigger kind of alluded to, I think it's a matter of the cost. She could be ashamed of the cost.

Still seems like a weird reason to hide something that could/would save Jon's life and the lives of many in his army. Surely there must have been a way to bring it up without going into all the details. The Knights of the Vale have backed the Starks before, right? And isn't that kid King of theirs Sansa's cousin? So it's not as if Jon would have been suspicious of their help.

 

[herman]

I didn't think it was super predictable that everything would basically work out for once.

I think they threw in Rickon's death just so they could say that something bad/unexpected happened. And even that doesn't really matter because seriously who cares about Rickon? But the battles in Meereen and Winterfell played out exactly how everyone expected. I get the good guys don't usually win but did anyone actually think that Jon was going to lose that battle?

Rickon was pretty much the throwaway Stark.  Even in the books he's hardly focused on at all.

Per the New Rockstars analysis video, wherein the guy explains that each direwolf name was an indication of the Stark-child's destiny:
Rickon - Shaggy Dog, could be a reference to the Shaggy Dog Story joke:

an extremely long-winded anecdote characterized by extensive narration of typically irrelevant incidents and terminated by an anticlimax or a pointless punchline.

 

[herman]

As Tigger kind of alluded to, I think it's a matter of the cost. She could be ashamed of the cost.

Still seems like a weird reason to hide something that could/would save Jon's life and the lives of many in his army. Surely there must have been a way to bring it up without going into all the details. The Knights of the Vale have backed the Starks before, right? And isn't that kid King of theirs Sansa's cousin? So it's not as if Jon would have been suspicious of their help.

Had the Knights of the Vale been revealed when the battle lines were formed, Ramsay would never have come out of Winterfell, and Jon's army would've lost then by attrition/starvation. Like the war council determined before, Ramsay needed to believe he could win or else he wouldn't bother to come out.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Had the Knights of the Vale been revealed when the battle lines were formed, Ramsay would never have come out of Winterfell, and Jon's army would've lost then by attrition/starvation. Like the war council determined before, Ramsay needed to believe he could win or else he wouldn't bother to come out.

That's a good point. But I don't think it explains Sansa's intentions. Or I mean instead of showing their hand Davos could have suggested the Knights just hide behind a hill or something until the battle starts. Or Jon could have known the Knights were on their way but started before they arrived because of what happened with Rickon.

So basically it all goes back to the decision being made primarily because it made for good TV. Which, again, I'm fine with.

 

[TBLeafer]

I don't care if it was predictable. What's wrong with the bad guys losing once in a while in Westeros? BEcasuse so far Dani never loses, so I don't count her.

What I wonder now is what is Littlefinger's cost - he doesn't do anything for free.

Dany's lost a few times before (maybe not directly). Khal Drogo + baby getting wrecked by a witch doctor, the fighting pit debacle that she was only saved from by Drogon, Sons of Harpy getting Barristan Selmy...

Littlefinger's payment will be pervy. The preview shows him accosting Sansa in the godswood. I suspect it will be something along the lines of uniting the North with the Vale in marriage (and the Riverlands by extension), i.e. Petyr's wish-fulfillment fantasy of a relationship with Catelyn via Sansa. Littlefinger is all about manipulating the direction that power flows and accumulates.

Yeah, I've been highly suspect that that has been Littlefinger's chief motive for some time.

Gamble on marrying her off to a monster, come to her rescue using the knights of the Vale, to restore her house and win her affections.

 

[Bullfrog]

As Tigger kind of alluded to, I think it's a matter of the cost. She could be ashamed of the cost.

Still seems like a weird reason to hide something that could/would save Jon's life and the lives of many in his army. Surely there must have been a way to bring it up without going into all the details. The Knights of the Vale have backed the Starks before, right? And isn't that kid King of theirs Sansa's cousin? So it's not as if Jon would have been suspicious of their help.

Unless Jon would have been so opposed to it that he wouldn't have gone along with it.

 

[mr grieves]

Hmmm. Or the show's plot mechanics are designed to deliver thrills and surprises and last-minute reversals rather than a coherent, realist narrative?

 

[Nik]

Had the Knights of the Vale been revealed when the battle lines were formed, Ramsay would never have come out of Winterfell, and Jon's army would've lost then by attrition/starvation. Like the war council determined before, Ramsay needed to believe he could win or else he wouldn't bother to come out.

Except it sure seemed like traditional siege defenses wouldn't have worked against a giant no matter what.

 

[herman]

Hmmm. Or the show's plot mechanics are designed to deliver thrills and surprises and last-minute reversals rather than a coherent, realist narrative?

We're not even touching on the part where Ramsay, a noted hothead and sneak, rather than military strategist (per Roose), uses a Hannibal-esque pincer and phalanx to pin Jon's army against a wall of the dead, which has not been seen in Westeros before (who trained the Bolton men? the Unsullied?).

Had the Knights of the Vale been revealed when the battle lines were formed, Ramsay would never have come out of Winterfell, and Jon's army would've lost then by attrition/starvation. Like the war council determined before, Ramsay needed to believe he could win or else he wouldn't bother to come out.

Except it sure seemed like traditional siege defenses wouldn't have worked against a giant no matter what.

If they were prepared to mount a defense of Winterfell, I don't think Wun Wun would've gotten that close. I can see scenarios where Jon's army could breach Winterfell thanks to the having a) Wun Wun and b) climbers of The Wall, but that's only if all of Ramsay's soldiers were sequestered within the walls, rather than lined up outside to guard the approach. Wun Wun was only able to get through because of Ramsay's hubris in not even bothering to prepare adequate defenses in Winterfell, so confident in his numerical superiority on the field.

Also not sure why Wun Wun didn't just pull up a tree before the melee, or bludgeoned the spearmen from above with the ones he had grabbed once he was trapped by the phalanx.

 

[TBLeafer]

Hmmm. Or the show's plot mechanics are designed to deliver thrills and surprises and last-minute reversals rather than a coherent, realist narrative?

It was in the fourth season, I think I mused that I think Jon and Dany will unite as king and queen at the end of the series.  The way the storylines were starting to play out started to lead me to believe that would be the final 'happy ending' of the complete story, despite their families being sworn enemies. I had many a good debate on it.

That theory did gain some legs when Dany took a Lannister for an adviser.

 

[bustaheims]

It was in the fourth season, I think I mused that I think Jon and Dany will unite as king and queen at the end of the series.  The way the storylines were starting to play out started to lead me to believe that would be the final 'happy ending' of the complete story, despite their families being sworn enemies. I had many a good debate on it.

That theory did gain some legs when Dany took a Lannister for an adviser.

If the R+L=J theory holds true, Dany would be Jon's aunt . . . and, while lots of royal families throughout history have practiced incest, I feel like GoT would prefer not to go down that path.

 

[TBLeafer]

It was in the fourth season, I think I mused that I think Jon and Dany will unite as king and queen at the end of the series.  The way the storylines were starting to play out started to lead me to believe that would be the final 'happy ending' of the complete story, despite their families being sworn enemies. I had many a good debate on it.

That theory did gain some legs when Dany took a Lannister for an adviser.

If the R+L=J theory holds true, Dany would be Jon's aunt . . . and, while lots of royal families throughout history have practiced incest, I feel like GoT would prefer not to go down that path.

The last two Iron Throne Kings have been products of sibling incest, as was the entire Targaryen line for the most part since they took the throne.