Goaltending conundrum
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GhostofPotvin29
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Scrivens with more Allaire comments: http://kylethereporter.com/2012/04/12/logical-thinking-has-scrivens-believing-in-allaire/
Champ Kind
New member
riff raff said:
C'mon, you're going to draw a conclusion about Reimer's ability based on a total of what, five games to start the year? Leafs' management see him day-in, day-out performing at practice, they see how he trains. Sorry, but if Burke is adament that he's the real deal, then I place a great deal of confidence in that opinion. ANd don't tell me it's because of the three-year contract; Burkle went out and signed the Monster, too, and it's virtually a lock that he won't be back next year.
Sign Josh Harding and let he and Reimer take the reins. I would predict goaltending in the 12-18 range league-wide, which of course would be a huge improvement.
I've been thinking about a little today, Kiprusoff anybody? Calgary might make him available, and while I'm sure the price will be high I don't think they'll be able to get a kings ransom for him considering his age and contract.
Contrary to the popular opinion here on these boards I am not convinced that bringing a veteran goalie is a good idea. Completely aside proposals like Kiprusoff or Nabokov who would certainly command more than 20-30 games I have an issue with ?back-up? guy of Martin Biron type.
For starters there is no guarantee that a veteran goalie produces better results than the goalies the Leafs have. I mentioned Biron, well his numbers look good, but he played behind much better organized teams such as Rangers, Flyers or Sabres. Just wait what Leafs D blunders (not exactly a rare occurrence) would do with his performance.
My bigger issue is that any such veteran ?back-up? goalie ? unless completely washed-up ala Marty Turco ? would want at least 2 years contract or compared to his peers solid money. If the Leafs are not willing to commit the length of the contract or the money, Burke is going to have a hard time to get any solid addition which would make a real difference.
So my assumption is that he will make that commitment. Fine. But this veteran back up will take someone?s spot. Where that leaves Scrivens, Rynnas, not to mention Owuya?
OK, we let Gustavsson go, which I still believe is a mistake. Reimer ? we all heard Burke the season-end press conference ? and this newly acquired veteran back-up will play for the Leafs. Scrivens, who showed some decent promise in the back-up role, will be left with starter position with Marlies and he will be the first one to be called up.
Rynnas to be just back up with Marlies? And what about Owuya? Send him back to Redding again? For Christ sake, he was the best of the three with Marlies and for his development would be the best if he could have that starting job in the AHL.
What I am afraid is that with bringing a veteran back up we will loose one of our prospects. Burke said he likes to do it old-fashioned way via trades. One these young prospects for a veteran? I really do not want to see Tuukka Rask 2.0 in Rynnas or Owuya excelling somewhere else.
I know that Burke does not want to repeat the risky decision to go into the season with unproved duo. I would, there are 5 young goalies, we have supposedly best goalie guru in the world, so let evaluate what we have. It seems to me highly unlikely that any of these 5 goalies (Gus, Reimer, Scrivens, Rynnas and Owuya) does not have NHL starter capabilities/skills.
With Burke?s desperate attempt to shake things up the Leafs obtain proven veteran for one of these prospect and we are back to Justin Pogge ? Tuukka Rask question. We all know how it ended.
The Leafs have quite a large pool of young goalies and in that regard have not been that fortunate for decades. I just do not want them to make a stupid, desperate decision which haunts them down the road again.
For starters there is no guarantee that a veteran goalie produces better results than the goalies the Leafs have. I mentioned Biron, well his numbers look good, but he played behind much better organized teams such as Rangers, Flyers or Sabres. Just wait what Leafs D blunders (not exactly a rare occurrence) would do with his performance.
My bigger issue is that any such veteran ?back-up? goalie ? unless completely washed-up ala Marty Turco ? would want at least 2 years contract or compared to his peers solid money. If the Leafs are not willing to commit the length of the contract or the money, Burke is going to have a hard time to get any solid addition which would make a real difference.
So my assumption is that he will make that commitment. Fine. But this veteran back up will take someone?s spot. Where that leaves Scrivens, Rynnas, not to mention Owuya?
OK, we let Gustavsson go, which I still believe is a mistake. Reimer ? we all heard Burke the season-end press conference ? and this newly acquired veteran back-up will play for the Leafs. Scrivens, who showed some decent promise in the back-up role, will be left with starter position with Marlies and he will be the first one to be called up.
Rynnas to be just back up with Marlies? And what about Owuya? Send him back to Redding again? For Christ sake, he was the best of the three with Marlies and for his development would be the best if he could have that starting job in the AHL.
What I am afraid is that with bringing a veteran back up we will loose one of our prospects. Burke said he likes to do it old-fashioned way via trades. One these young prospects for a veteran? I really do not want to see Tuukka Rask 2.0 in Rynnas or Owuya excelling somewhere else.
I know that Burke does not want to repeat the risky decision to go into the season with unproved duo. I would, there are 5 young goalies, we have supposedly best goalie guru in the world, so let evaluate what we have. It seems to me highly unlikely that any of these 5 goalies (Gus, Reimer, Scrivens, Rynnas and Owuya) does not have NHL starter capabilities/skills.
With Burke?s desperate attempt to shake things up the Leafs obtain proven veteran for one of these prospect and we are back to Justin Pogge ? Tuukka Rask question. We all know how it ended.
The Leafs have quite a large pool of young goalies and in that regard have not been that fortunate for decades. I just do not want them to make a stupid, desperate decision which haunts them down the road again.
riff raff
New member
This obsession with a veteran goalie is problematic. What the Leafs need is a good goalie. An outstanding one would be nice, but we might be satisfied with a competent one.
Veteran does not necessarily equal good.
Take a look at the so-called veterans who will be available (FA or trade) and ask yourself: "will they be better than what we have?" Would a veteran be better than, say, Scrivens?
If not, then what's the point?
Veteran does not necessarily equal good.
Take a look at the so-called veterans who will be available (FA or trade) and ask yourself: "will they be better than what we have?" Would a veteran be better than, say, Scrivens?
If not, then what's the point?
moon111
New member
I think the Leafs could of used an older goalie more off the ice then on it. Someone to say, "Don't listen to Ron Wilson, he's an idiot. Just go out there and play. And use what you can use from Allaire, but play your game. Forget the fans, media, coaches, and even the teammates. Go play, compete, but have fun." Think stress killed the goaltending more then any concussion ever did.
bustaheims
Active member
riff raff said:
Well, sure, but all these thigns are implied. What we're saying is the Leafs needs a goalie with all those things AND with enough experience to handle the pressure of playing in Toronto, not fold like a cheap suit if things start to go south and can be a mentor/positive influence on the young goalies in the organization.
riff raff
New member
bustaheims said:
You know who that sounds like? J.S. Giguere. He was, by all accounts, a great mentor, a veteran goalie who had played with pressure and had success.
However, he could not win on the ice with the Leafs and, if the proof is in the pudding, his mentorship did not help Gus in the long run. Reimer, either.
L K
Active member
bustaheims said:
And the thing about a veteran goalie/good goalie, is that you need a guy with a track record to fill that role. Gus might put it together next year. Reimer might rebound from a sophomore slump. Scrivens might step in and be NHL capable. It's just too much MIGHT and not enough HAS and WILL.
The Leafs need an established veteran, because they need a guy who can reliable have a SV% over .900 for an entire season.
riff raff
New member
L K said:
But...but...there's no guarantee that you are going to have a goalie with a SV% over .900 for an entire season just because they are an established veteran. There are just as many MIGHTs involved with an available veteran goalie.
The Leafs need a good goalie. We all agree with that. And I can see the argument that someone who has been good and consistent in the past has a track record that would make you think that he would be good and consistent with the Leafs. And if the Leafs made a deal for a good goalie who also happened to be a veteran then I don't think anyone would be complaining. But too many people are talking as if the only variable in play is the 'veteran' part. As if any veteran goalie would do.
For example, Raycroft is a veteran. He has some experience with playing in a pressure-filled environment. Do you want him back? (You don't have to respond. This is a rhetorical question.)
Anyone catch HNIC Hot Stove yesterday? Healy said that Allaire was getting fed up in Toronto and thinking of retiring. That could be just idle gossip/getting a shot at the Leafs on Healy's part, but who knows?
I think the Leafs could use a mentor/veteran goalie just to provide a bit of stability. It would allow the young goalies in the system to get a taste of the NHL, without the weight of the world on their shoulders.
I'm not expecting a lot of wins right now, but I would like to see the Leafs take their time in evaluating their goalie prospects and not trade any of them in haste.
I think the Leafs could use a mentor/veteran goalie just to provide a bit of stability. It would allow the young goalies in the system to get a taste of the NHL, without the weight of the world on their shoulders.
I'm not expecting a lot of wins right now, but I would like to see the Leafs take their time in evaluating their goalie prospects and not trade any of them in haste.