Grabovski Bought Out

[GhostofPotvin29]

I wonder why his offensive numbers were down this season?

So, using this logic, you account for his poor 2009-2010 season how?

I look at games played and not just points? He had a 48 pt pace in a full season. Maybe slightly off other seasons but not significantly so if he battled injury.

 

[mr grieves]

Not sure what thread to put this stat in, but kill me if they use grabbo's cap space on Bozak (from Leafs Nation):

Back to Bozak for a few seconds.. did you know he only has 8 points in his entire 5 on 5 career without Phil Kessel on the ice with him? 584 minutes is approximately 29 games for Bozak based off of last year's minutes.

Not exactly following this. 8 ES points in 584 Kessel-free minutes, you're saying?

If so, that's .822 P/60... which isn't really as far from Bozak's with-Kessel production as I would've thought. Those are: 2012/13's contract season 1.55 & 2011/12's 1.66, respectively.

Fun fact: Grabbo's also scored at a rate of 1.55 P/60! While playing with McClement and Kuli. Otherwise, his numbers are 2.08 (2011/12), 2.06 (10/11), 1.96 (09/10), and 1.84 (08/09).

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

Unless there is a significant upgrade to the 2C position over grabovski - this was a big mistake.

I really don't like where this team is going. Really didn't like that they let Komarov get away, the Bernier trade didn't make much sense to me (Reimer plays amazing, again, carries the team on his back and almost single handedly gets them and keeps them in the playoffs - after they dangled this Kiprusoff thing in front of him - then they trade for another goaltender ?) and now Grabovski is dumped for ... .what exactly?

Im with everyone else here, if this was all done to clear room to resign Bozak, im going to be furious. How Bozak made it from the NCAA to a fringe NHLer and is now demanding 1st line player money.... It's nothing short of amazing considering how he's , you know, not a very good hockey player.

First of all, Komarov left of his own free will, until I hear something different.

Second, I think people are not giving enough credit to how the Leafs view Kadri. He's our second center, so Grabovski wasn't going to get those minutes anyway IMO.

Third, I don't think Nonis really wants to stay status quo, you have to upgrade players when you can and so far he's done that. You'll just have to wait and see how the top line center position shapes up. If he signs a better one, great, if he signs Bozak, then it's simply Grabo gone because of cap space and the fact that Kadri needs those minutes.

 

[Corn Flake]

It's a shortsighted move based on poor usage in a short season with small sample size.

If it was all a hockey decision, I kind of agree.

Lots of these decisions get made in the name of team chemistry too, and it's pretty apparent that Grabbo wasn't enjoying his role.

I think it's a lot more than just a bad half season and chemistry, but yeah.. you have a coach who under him Kadri flourished and Grabbo didn't... it was the reverse under Wilson.  So if push comes to shove which player should be the one we move on with?  Yep.. Kadri.

 

[mr grieves]

None of what people are saying about Grabovski solves the dislike from Carlyle. If the coach doesn't like a players game and won't play him on the top two lines, why have a 5.5 million offensive center playing on the third line in a defensive role? Carlyle I'm sure, had very much to do with this buyout situation.

Agreed, but short of firing Carlyle there was nothing else Nonis could do to solve the roster problem.

Well, one thing I thought Nonis was going to do was take away RC's favorite toys (Bozak) and leave him with Kadri, Grabbo, Bolland, and McClement down the middle. No other options, Randy.

But, of course, I guess Bolland could've seen a promotion to the first or second line. I wonder how that would've worked... Maybe we'll get to see anyway.

Although the Leafs won't use Bolland in an offensive role, and he wasn't used that way on the Hawks either, his numbers are actually very comparable to Bozak's the last few seasons.  Bolland didn't get to play with Kessel either.

Last 3 seasons Bozak point totals:
32
47
28

Last 3 seasons Bolland point totals:
37
37
14

So 107 points for Bozak vs 88 for Bolland.  Bozak top line center, Bolland checking 3rd line center.  See a problem?

I wasn't saying it was a good idea.

 

[Champ Kind]

A bit late to this debate but, in reading Grabovski's asinine comments on his way out the door, I'm very much left with the feeling of 'good riddance'.  I won't put too much into this, since I try to avoid dressing room talk and such, but the guy doesn't exactly seem like he directs his, um, 'passion', in a constructive manner. 

"I play in the [expletive] Russian KHL, I make lots of [expletive] points and what's going to happen? He make me [expletive] play on the fourth line and he put me in the playoffs on the fourth line and third line again," Grabovski spewed. "Yeah, I don't score goals. I need to work more about that. I know that. But if you feel support from your coach [you'll find success]. I don't feel any support from this [expletive] idiot."

 

[Frank E]

A bit late to this debate but, in reading Grabovski's asinine comments on his way out the door, I'm very much left with the feeling of 'good riddance'.  I won't put too much into this, since I try to avoid dressing room talk and such, but the guy doesn't exactly seem like he directs his, um, 'passion', in a constructive manner. 

"I play in the [expletive] Russian KHL, I make lots of [expletive] points and what's going to happen? He make me [expletive] play on the fourth line and he put me in the playoffs on the fourth line and third line again," Grabovski spewed. "Yeah, I don't score goals. I need to work more about that. I know that. But if you feel support from your coach [you'll find success]. I don't feel any support from this [expletive] idiot."

The character issues are pretty apparent here.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I like that he's pissed. I don't like that he vented in such a manner.

 

[Champ Kind]

I wonder why his offensive numbers were down this season?

So, using this logic, you account for his poor 2009-2010 season how?

I look at games played and not just points? He had a 48 pt pace in a full season. Maybe slightly off other seasons but not significantly so if he battled injury.

I'm trying to get at the point that offensive zone starts, or some other derivative or metric, aren't the definitive reason you made them out to be in your statement.  I mean, he did have some significant health issues, which may have accounted for subpar performance, right?

 

[Kin]

Look up his PP time last season compared to previous seasons.

Ok. Last year he had 1:42 in PP time per game. He scored 3 points in that time. Given a total PP time of 81:49 that results in a power play point every 27:16 of PP time, right? The year before he had 2:05 per night in PP time and scored 10 points. That's a power play point every 15.5 minutes. The year before that he had 3:08 a night and 15 points which is somewhere in the neighbourhood of a point every 17 minutes.

So while Grabovski's PP time definitely went down, it's also pretty clear that he was significantly less effective with it.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I wonder why his offensive numbers were down this season?

So, using this logic, you account for his poor 2009-2010 season how?

I look at games played and not just points? He had a 48 pt pace in a full season. Maybe slightly off other seasons but not significantly so if he battled injury.

I'm trying to get at the point that offensive zone starts, or some other derivative or metric, aren't the definitive reason you made them out to be in your statement.  I mean, he did have some significant health issues, which may have accounted for subpar performance, right?

And I'm trying to say he didn't have a bad season in 09-10.  Are you just ignoring that he only played 59 games and only looking at his point totals or what? I don't understand the criticism of his season.  At worst it was slightly below average for him.

 

[Zee]

As far as I can tell there's a 50/50 split of people that love the buyout and hate the buyout.  For me, although I liked Grabovski when he was playing well, it was frustrating to see him do nothing for long stretches too.  I mean some games he seemed like a world beater, the Boston game from last season (i think) comes to mind where he was almost concussed and then scored the winning goal on Thomas on a beautiful rush.  I get that he's a passionate player, we all saw his fights with the Habs and his beef with the Kostitsyn brothers, but for me it comes down to the money he was making.  Burke is to blame here for giving him that term and money that he couldn't possibly live up to.

 

[Jolly good show chaps]

Just under two hours to go until deals can be announced. Have any news conferences been planned in Leafland today? If the Grabovski buyout was to make a UFA deal or two happen then surely we will hear today.

 

[hockeyfan1]

As far as I can tell there's a 50/50 split of people that love the buyout and hate the buyout.  For me, although I liked Grabovski when he was playing well, it was frustrating to see him do nothing for long stretches too.  I mean some games he seemed like a world beater, the Boston game from last season (i think) comes to mind where he was almost concussed and then scored the winning goal on Thomas on a beautiful rush.  I get that he's a passionate player, we all saw his fights with the Habs and his beef with the Kostitsyn brothers, but for me it comes down to the money he was making.  Burke is to blame here for giving him that term and money that he couldn't possibly live up to.

Well said, Zee.

 

[Champ Kind]

I like that he's pissed. I don't like that he vented in such a manner.

Well, right.  It's sort of like saying "I love the energy he brought in the series against the Bruins, but I didn't like that he didn't score, couldn't win a draw, didn't cover the points, and finished a minus 10."

I was as optimistic as anyone about Grabovski.  I bought into the "Datsyuk-lite" hype.  I wanted him to succeed.  But - and I'm saying all this within the context that Nonis is going to deliver something >Grabovski in the coming days - I'm not at all bothered by his departure, especially given his performance over 55 games last year.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

As far as I can tell there's a 50/50 split of people that love the buyout and hate the buyout.  For me, although I liked Grabovski when he was playing well, it was frustrating to see him do nothing for long stretches too.  I mean some games he seemed like a world beater, the Boston game from last season (i think) comes to mind where he was almost concussed and then scored the winning goal on Thomas on a beautiful rush.  I get that he's a passionate player, we all saw his fights with the Habs and his beef with the Kostitsyn brothers, but for me it comes down to the money he was making.  Burke is to blame here for giving him that term and money that he couldn't possibly live up to.

I'm in the middle on it. While I loved that he got back up and competed, after he was hit hard, I hate that he was on his ass a lot. I also think Nonis is capable of upgrading the center position.

I mostly think this was about price performance and his lack of fit on a Carlyle coached team.

 

[L K]

A bit late to this debate but, in reading Grabovski's asinine comments on his way out the door, I'm very much left with the feeling of 'good riddance'.  I won't put too much into this, since I try to avoid dressing room talk and such, but the guy doesn't exactly seem like he directs his, um, 'passion', in a constructive manner. 

"I play in the [expletive] Russian KHL, I make lots of [expletive] points and what's going to happen? He make me [expletive] play on the fourth line and he put me in the playoffs on the fourth line and third line again," Grabovski spewed. "Yeah, I don't score goals. I need to work more about that. I know that. But if you feel support from your coach [you'll find success]. I don't feel any support from this [expletive] idiot."

The character issues are pretty apparent here.

I'm not sure how this proves character issues?  He acknowledges that he wasn't performing to expectations but is pissed that he had poor communication with the coach and then was released a year after signing a pretty big contract that indicated he would be with the team in the long-term.  The language and way he responded wasn't really all that mature, I agree, but I can completely understand the frustration under the situation. 

Player A: "We played a good game, kept things simple, do the little things, give 110%"
Fan Response: I hate when players show no emotion and issue generic statements

Player B: "I'm pissed off"
Fan Response: He has character issues

 

[Kin]

Not exactly following this. 8 ES points in 584 Kessel-free minutes, you're saying?

If so, that's .822 P/60... which isn't really as far from Bozak's with-Kessel production as I would've thought. Those are: 2012/13's contract season 1.55 & 2011/12's 1.66, respectively.

Fun fact: Grabbo's also scored at a rate of 1.55 P/60! While playing with McClement and Kuli. Otherwise, his numbers are 2.08 (2011/12), 2.06 (10/11), 1.96 (09/10), and 1.84 (08/09).

As far as metrics go, ES P/60 has a ways to go. Well, that or someone should really tell Pittsburgh they got hosed with the Malkin contract. Well, that or we should look to trade Phil Kessel for Matt Cullen.

 

[louisstamos]

I like that he's pissed. I don't like that he vented in such a manner.

Well, right.  It's sort of like saying "I love the energy he brought in the series against the Bruins, but I didn't like that he didn't score, couldn't win a draw, didn't cover the points, and finished a minus 10."

I was as optimistic as anyone about Grabovski.  I bought into the "Datsyuk-lite" hype.  I wanted him to succeed.  But - and I'm saying all this within the context that Nonis is going to deliver something >Grabovski in the coming days - I'm not at all bothered by his departure, especially given his performance over 55 games last year.

That's pretty much it...if Nonis brings in a centre that's better than Grabovski, then the move makes sense.  The issue is - of the reported centres that are available, I'm not sure there IS a centre better than Grabovski.  Thornton, Stastny...and that's it.  For me, guys like Ribero, Roy and Weiss would be, at best, a wash.

 

[mr grieves]

I wonder why his offensive numbers were down this season?

So, using this logic, you account for his poor 2009-2010 season how?

I look at games played and not just points? He had a 48 pt pace in a full season. Maybe slightly off other seasons but not significantly so if he battled injury.

I'm trying to get at the point that offensive zone starts, or some other derivative or metric, aren't the definitive reason you made them out to be in your statement.  I mean, he did have some significant health issues, which may have accounted for subpar performance, right?

So you want to say that because his production declined in 2008/9 because of an injury issue, it did in  2013 too..? I mean... maybe? But he missed no games.

But, for the last 40, he did average 16 minutes a game. His most frequent linemates were McClement and Kuli. He had the same % O-zone starts as such guys as Travis Moen, Maxime Talbot, and David Steckel.

On the last: find your favorite scoring center with fewer than 40% offensive zone starts: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=63&f1=2012_s&f2=5v5&f4=C+LW+RW&f7=20-&c=0+1+3+5+2+4+6+7+8+10+17+18+19+20+63+67+57+58+59+60+61+62+64+65+66#snip=f