Grabovski Bought Out

[GhostofPotvin29]

To all Nonis apologists that he surely tried as hell to trade Grabbo, but he did not find any takers because of his 5.5M per contract - how come Edmonton managed to trade Shawn Horcoff, who is 5 years older, has exact same cap hit and does have more or less similar numbers as Grabovski...

Nonis apologists?  Just a minute...

Nonis indicated that it was tough to figure out what to do with Grabovski.
?This was not an easy decision to make as Mikhail made numerous contributions to our hockey club,? he said in a statement. ?This is a roster move that will give us salary cap flexibility moving forward.?

Source:  Sportsnet

See these are the statements I have hated from the Leafs management over the years. Its like the draft days of old "Fret not Leaf fans, sure we were brutal this year but we have a really high draft pick and we are going to pick a winner like Rob Pearson or Drake Berehowsky". The leafs have a terrible,TERRIBLE track record with this style of approach. We went from small steady increments under Burke to the clear the decks approach of the past.  Are we really going for another rebuild here where we don't see playoff hockey for another 5 years.

Another rebuild?  Exactly what did Grabovski contribute to the team's success in making the playoffs while playing on the 3rd line?  He was a passenger most of the season, Boland can easily replace what he brought on the 3rd line.  They didn't need Grabovski's offense since Kadri emerged, so quit being so dramatic.  The core of the team is still in tact, this is hardly a complete tear down.

Interesting that you're okay with getting rid of Grabovski after one poor season where he apparently didn't contribute offensively to them making the playoffs (which ignores his defensive minutes freeing up others to focus offensively as well) when the biggest reason they made the playoffs was goaltending.  But how are we okay jettisoning Grabovski after one poor half-season offensively, but at the same time are fine with it because of Kadri who has yet to play enough or produce consistently enough to say anything definitive about him?  Grabovski was the best C we had, and as that usage graphic I posted above shows, always produced when being put in a reasonable position to be offensive.

It's a tough new reality for the NHL, contracts and perceived value of the team.  The biggest improvement for Leafs was goaltending and PK, both of which Grabovski has nothing to do with.  He doesn't kill penalties, Jay McClement does, and he was the biggest reason for the PK improvement along with the improved play of Reimer.  People have already said Grabovski isn't a checking center, so how can you trumpet his defensive play as " freeing up others to focus offensively".  Grabovski simply isn't that good as a defensive center.  Boland and McClement will now fill that role and at a much cheaper price.  It's really quite simple.  Kadri is younger and cheaper and has more upside than Grabovski.

Because by virtue of Carlyle giving Grabovski all those defensive minutes it allowed players like Bozak and Kadri, and Kessel and JVR etc to play more offensive minutes instead?  I never "trumpeted" his defensive play, I said he ate up defensive minutes and allowed others to play offensively. But since you mention it, I do think he's better than those other 2 C in that role. He's just a better overall player than Bozak or Kadri.  It's debatable whether Kadri has more upside at this point, but regardless there was room for Grabovski, Kadri, Bolland and McClement as this teams four C's.

 

[brothert]

Grabovski wasn't our 2C.  So right off you missed my point, he played the entire season as 3C and the Leafs were in the playoffs.  Kadri is his replacement as 2C.  Sure Frattin was a good winger but we have a young potential great goalie now to battle with Reimer.  MacArthur is a good winger as well and he still *could* re-sign with the Leafs, if not they'll have to look elsewhere.

Bozak although being the 1C by default on the Leafs, will never be a 1C on any other team in the league, he's just not that good.  He needs Kessel to produce his points not the other way around.  So to make some Leafs fans happy you'd want to re-sign Bozak to 8 years $5M+?  Please.

First off I think Grabbo is better than Bozak so bring Bozak back in Grabbos stead is a failure. I expected we would upgrade the 1C position and use our buyouts to clean up the backlog on defense. We still need a high minute defensive D man. But right now there's half a team of forwards to fix.  Maybe Nonis is a magician I hope so but he sure has created a lot of work for himself this summer.  Did we need Grabbos cap space that much that he couldn't be given the year to bump up his value? Or is it more that the coach won't give him the chance. I think grabbos buyout guaruntees that gardiner is gone which is too bad because I liked him too.

 

[mr grieves]

The roster as of today is:

JVR - Bolland - Kessel
Lupul - McClement - Kulemin
Orr - <blank> - <blank>
<blank> - <blank> - <blank>

Phaneuf - Gardiner
Liles - Holzer
<blank> - <blank>

Reimer
<blank>

RFAs - Jonathan Bernier (G), Nazem Kadri (C), Joe Colborne (C), Frazer McLaren (W), Carl Gunnarsson (D), Cody Franson (D), Mark Fraser (D)
UFAs - Tyler Bozak (C), Clarke MacArthur (W), Mike Kostka (D), Ryan O'Byrne (D)

The Leafs have a lot of cap space right now but if he goes and wastes it all on overpaying someone like Clarkson the team is going to be no better. 

I don't think Nonis didn't do due diligence on trying to trade Grabovski now.  I just think that he could have waited to find a deal at a later date.  I'm not convinced that he's going to find a magical #1C option at this point to be honest.

Wow. Look at that roster! Put Holzer down in the minors, trade Kuli and the rights to Gunnar, and we're looking like the NHL's All North American All-Stars!

Don Cherry'll be real happy. 

 

[LittleHockeyFan]

I really liked Grabovski, even if I didn't like his contract.  It seems like a waste that things didn't work out with Carlyle.  I'm confident he'll find more success wherever he lands, though.

Poor Grabbobear will need a makeover, I guess.

she'll survive. She was AntroBear before Grabbo??already gearing up to be ColbourneBear someday hopefully (is he tall?)

 

[Zee]

To all Nonis apologists that he surely tried as hell to trade Grabbo, but he did not find any takers because of his 5.5M per contract - how come Edmonton managed to trade Shawn Horcoff, who is 5 years older, has exact same cap hit and does have more or less similar numbers as Grabovski...

Nonis apologists?  Just a minute...

Nonis indicated that it was tough to figure out what to do with Grabovski.
?This was not an easy decision to make as Mikhail made numerous contributions to our hockey club,? he said in a statement. ?This is a roster move that will give us salary cap flexibility moving forward.?

Source:  Sportsnet

See these are the statements I have hated from the Leafs management over the years. Its like the draft days of old "Fret not Leaf fans, sure we were brutal this year but we have a really high draft pick and we are going to pick a winner like Rob Pearson or Drake Berehowsky". The leafs have a terrible,TERRIBLE track record with this style of approach. We went from small steady increments under Burke to the clear the decks approach of the past.  Are we really going for another rebuild here where we don't see playoff hockey for another 5 years.

Another rebuild?  Exactly what did Grabovski contribute to the team's success in making the playoffs while playing on the 3rd line?  He was a passenger most of the season, Boland can easily replace what he brought on the 3rd line.  They didn't need Grabovski's offense since Kadri emerged, so quit being so dramatic.  The core of the team is still in tact, this is hardly a complete tear down.

Interesting that you're okay with getting rid of Grabovski after one poor season where he apparently didn't contribute offensively to them making the playoffs (which ignores his defensive minutes freeing up others to focus offensively as well) when the biggest reason they made the playoffs was goaltending.  But how are we okay jettisoning Grabovski after one poor half-season offensively, but at the same time are fine with it because of Kadri who has yet to play enough or produce consistently enough to say anything definitive about him?  Grabovski was the best C we had, and as that usage graphic I posted above shows, always produced when being put in a reasonable position to be offensive.

It's a tough new reality for the NHL, contracts and perceived value of the team.  The biggest improvement for Leafs was goaltending and PK, both of which Grabovski has nothing to do with.  He doesn't kill penalties, Jay McClement does, and he was the biggest reason for the PK improvement along with the improved play of Reimer.  People have already said Grabovski isn't a checking center, so how can you trumpet his defensive play as " freeing up others to focus offensively".  Grabovski simply isn't that good as a defensive center.  Boland and McClement will now fill that role and at a much cheaper price.  It's really quite simple.  Kadri is younger and cheaper and has more upside than Grabovski.

Because by virtue of Carlyle giving Grabovski all those defensive minutes it allowed players like Bozak and Kadri, and Kessel and JVR etc to play more offensive minutes instead?  I never "trumpeted" his defensive play, I said he ate up defensive minutes and allowed others to play offensively. But since you mention it, I do think he's better than those other 2 C in that role. He's just a better overall player than Bozak or Kadri.  It's debatable whether Kadri has more upside at this point, but regardless there was room for Grabovski, Kadri, Bolland and McClement as this teams four C's.

You're really going to debate Kadri with more upside than Grabovski?  In 48 games he put up 44 points..Grabovski's career high is 58 points, so Kadri almost matched Grabovski's career high over 82 games in 48 games.  Add that to the fact that Kadri is an RFA and they have the leverage with his contract for a little while then it makes total sense to go with Kadri over Grabovski.

Yes Grabovski played a defensive role, but they have a replacement for that role now at a cheaper price. So that frees up Kadri to continue as 2C and whoever Nonis gets as 1C.

 

[Zee]

Grabovski wasn't our 2C.  So right off you missed my point, he played the entire season as 3C and the Leafs were in the playoffs.  Kadri is his replacement as 2C.  Sure Frattin was a good winger but we have a young potential great goalie now to battle with Reimer.  MacArthur is a good winger as well and he still *could* re-sign with the Leafs, if not they'll have to look elsewhere.

Bozak although being the 1C by default on the Leafs, will never be a 1C on any other team in the league, he's just not that good.  He needs Kessel to produce his points not the other way around.  So to make some Leafs fans happy you'd want to re-sign Bozak to 8 years $5M+?  Please.

First off I think Grabbo is better than Bozak so bring Bozak back in Grabbos stead is a failure. I expected we would upgrade the 1C position and use our buyouts to clean up the backlog on defense. We still need a high minute defensive D man. But right now there's half a team of forwards to fix.  Maybe Nonis is a magician I hope so but he sure has created a lot of work for himself this summer.  Did we need Grabbos cap space that much that he couldn't be given the year to bump up his value? Or is it more that the coach won't give him the chance. I think grabbos buyout guaruntees that gardiner is gone which is too bad because I liked him too.

By all accounts Nonis is holding firm with Bozak's contracts demands so there's no guarantee he's coming back as 1C.  If anything it seems Nonis is working hard to try and get a true top center and won't settle for an overpaid guy who's there by default.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

None of what people are saying about Grabovski solves the dislike from Carlyle. If the coach doesn't like a players game and won't play him on the top two lines, why have a 5.5 million offensive center playing on the third line in a defensive role? Carlyle I'm sure, had very much to do with this buyout situation.

 

[Zee]

None of what people are saying about Grabovski solves the dislike from Carlyle. If the coach doesn't like a players game and won't play him on the top two lines, why have a 5.5 million offensive center playing on the third line in a defensive role? Carlyle I'm sure, had very much to do with this buyout situation.

Agreed, but short of firing Carlyle there was nothing else Nonis could do to solve the roster problem.

 

[princedpw]

Not sure what thread to put this stat in, but kill me if they use grabbo's cap space on Bozak (from Leafs Nation):

Back to Bozak for a few seconds.. did you know he only has 8 points in his entire 5 on 5 career without Phil Kessel on the ice with him? 584 minutes is approximately 29 games for Bozak based off of last year's minutes.

 

[Zee]

Not sure what thread to put this stat in, but kill me if they use grabbo's cap space on Bozak (from Leafs Nation):

Back to Bozak for a few seconds.. did you know he only has 8 points in his entire 5 on 5 career without Phil Kessel on the ice with him? 584 minutes is approximately 29 games for Bozak based off of last year's minutes.

I think it's pretty much accepted by most Leafs fans that if we use the money saved on Grabovski to re-sign Bozak, Nonis should be fired.

 

[mr grieves]

None of what people are saying about Grabovski solves the dislike from Carlyle. If the coach doesn't like a players game and won't play him on the top two lines, why have a 5.5 million offensive center playing on the third line in a defensive role? Carlyle I'm sure, had very much to do with this buyout situation.

Agreed, but short of firing Carlyle there was nothing else Nonis could do to solve the roster problem.

Well, one thing I thought Nonis was going to do was take away RC's favorite toys (Bozak) and leave him with Kadri, Grabbo, Bolland, and McClement down the middle. No other options, Randy.

But, of course, I guess Bolland could've seen a promotion to the first or second line. I wonder how that would've worked... Maybe we'll get to see anyway.

 

[princedpw]

Not sure what thread to put this stat in, but kill me if they use grabbo's cap space on Bozak (from Leafs Nation):

Back to Bozak for a few seconds.. did you know he only has 8 points in his entire 5 on 5 career without Phil Kessel on the ice with him? 584 minutes is approximately 29 games for Bozak based off of last year's minutes.

I think it's pretty much accepted by most Leafs fans that if we use the money saved on Grabovski to re-sign Bozak, Nonis should be fired.

Ok. Excellent.  Let's pray Nonis accepts this too.

 

[L K]

None of what people are saying about Grabovski solves the dislike from Carlyle. If the coach doesn't like a players game and won't play him on the top two lines, why have a 5.5 million offensive center playing on the third line in a defensive role? Carlyle I'm sure, had very much to do with this buyout situation.

Sure, but is the basis of one season of Carlyle really enough to justify jettisoning a guy who played his butt off for the team for several years?  Carlyle in 66 games with the team has a 32-26-8 record.  That amounts to an 89 point pace overall. 

 

[Zee]

None of what people are saying about Grabovski solves the dislike from Carlyle. If the coach doesn't like a players game and won't play him on the top two lines, why have a 5.5 million offensive center playing on the third line in a defensive role? Carlyle I'm sure, had very much to do with this buyout situation.

Agreed, but short of firing Carlyle there was nothing else Nonis could do to solve the roster problem.

Well, one thing I thought Nonis was going to do was take away RC's favorite toys (Bozak) and leave him with Kadri, Grabbo, Bolland, and McClement down the middle. No other options, Randy.

But, of course, I guess Bolland could've seen a promotion to the first or second line. I wonder how that would've worked... Maybe we'll get to see anyway.

Although the Leafs won't use Bolland in an offensive role, and he wasn't used that way on the Hawks either, his numbers are actually very comparable to Bozak's the last few seasons.  Bolland didn't get to play with Kessel either.

Last 3 seasons Bozak point totals:
32
47
28

Last 3 seasons Bolland point totals:
37
37
14

So 107 points for Bozak vs 88 for Bolland.  Bozak top line center, Bolland checking 3rd line center.  See a problem?

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

None of what people are saying about Grabovski solves the dislike from Carlyle. If the coach doesn't like a players game and won't play him on the top two lines, why have a 5.5 million offensive center playing on the third line in a defensive role? Carlyle I'm sure, had very much to do with this buyout situation.

Sure, but is the basis of one season of Carlyle really enough to justify jettisoning a guy who played his butt off for the team for several years?  Carlyle in 66 games with the team has a 32-26-8 record.  That amounts to an 89 point pace overall. 

It's a business and Grabovski was making too much money, so yeah. I don't think the coach was getting fired and Nonis had a way of clearing the salary without having it on the cap. If the buyout would have counted against the cap, I think we would have seen Nonis tell Carlyle to bare with it until he could find a trade.

Otherwise, If Nonis has a trade or a signing in his back pocket, it makes even more sense. We'll see soon enough.

 

[Mack674]

Unless there is a significant upgrade to the 2C position over grabovski - this was a big mistake.

I really don't like where this team is going. Really didn't like that they let Komarov get away, the Bernier trade didn't make much sense to me (Reimer plays amazing, again, carries the team on his back and almost single handedly gets them and keeps them in the playoffs - after they dangled this Kiprusoff thing in front of him - then they trade for another goaltender ?) and now Grabovski is dumped for ... .what exactly?

Im with everyone else here, if this was all done to clear room to resign Bozak, im going to be furious. How Bozak made it from the NCAA to a fringe NHLer and is now demanding 1st line player money.... It's nothing short of amazing considering how he's , you know, not a very good hockey player.

 

[Champ Kind]

I wonder why his offensive numbers were down this season?

So, using this logic, you account for his poor 2009-2010 season how?

 

[Kin]

To all Nonis apologists that he surely tried as hell to trade Grabbo, but he did not find any takers because of his 5.5M per contract - how come Edmonton managed to trade Shawn Horcoff, who is 5 years older, has exact same cap hit and does have more or less similar numbers as Grabovski...

At a guess? That while both players have bad contracts Horcoff's runs for two more years and Grabo's for four. Or the teams that were willing to cough up something for that kind of asset were on Grabo's no-trade list and he wasn't willing to waive it.

They're similar situations but not identical. You haven't found a smoking gun.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

To all Nonis apologists that he surely tried as hell to trade Grabbo, but he did not find any takers because of his 5.5M per contract - how come Edmonton managed to trade Shawn Horcoff, who is 5 years older, has exact same cap hit and does have more or less similar numbers as Grabovski...

Nonis apologists?  Just a minute...

Nonis indicated that it was tough to figure out what to do with Grabovski.
?This was not an easy decision to make as Mikhail made numerous contributions to our hockey club,? he said in a statement. ?This is a roster move that will give us salary cap flexibility moving forward.?

Source:  Sportsnet

See these are the statements I have hated from the Leafs management over the years. Its like the draft days of old "Fret not Leaf fans, sure we were brutal this year but we have a really high draft pick and we are going to pick a winner like Rob Pearson or Drake Berehowsky". The leafs have a terrible,TERRIBLE track record with this style of approach. We went from small steady increments under Burke to the clear the decks approach of the past.  Are we really going for another rebuild here where we don't see playoff hockey for another 5 years.

Another rebuild?  Exactly what did Grabovski contribute to the team's success in making the playoffs while playing on the 3rd line?  He was a passenger most of the season, Boland can easily replace what he brought on the 3rd line.  They didn't need Grabovski's offense since Kadri emerged, so quit being so dramatic.  The core of the team is still in tact, this is hardly a complete tear down.

Interesting that you're okay with getting rid of Grabovski after one poor season where he apparently didn't contribute offensively to them making the playoffs (which ignores his defensive minutes freeing up others to focus offensively as well) when the biggest reason they made the playoffs was goaltending.  But how are we okay jettisoning Grabovski after one poor half-season offensively, but at the same time are fine with it because of Kadri who has yet to play enough or produce consistently enough to say anything definitive about him?  Grabovski was the best C we had, and as that usage graphic I posted above shows, always produced when being put in a reasonable position to be offensive.

It's a tough new reality for the NHL, contracts and perceived value of the team.  The biggest improvement for Leafs was goaltending and PK, both of which Grabovski has nothing to do with.  He doesn't kill penalties, Jay McClement does, and he was the biggest reason for the PK improvement along with the improved play of Reimer.  People have already said Grabovski isn't a checking center, so how can you trumpet his defensive play as " freeing up others to focus offensively".  Grabovski simply isn't that good as a defensive center.  Boland and McClement will now fill that role and at a much cheaper price.  It's really quite simple.  Kadri is younger and cheaper and has more upside than Grabovski.

Because by virtue of Carlyle giving Grabovski all those defensive minutes it allowed players like Bozak and Kadri, and Kessel and JVR etc to play more offensive minutes instead?  I never "trumpeted" his defensive play, I said he ate up defensive minutes and allowed others to play offensively. But since you mention it, I do think he's better than those other 2 C in that role. He's just a better overall player than Bozak or Kadri.  It's debatable whether Kadri has more upside at this point, but regardless there was room for Grabovski, Kadri, Bolland and McClement as this teams four C's.

You're really going to debate Kadri with more upside than Grabovski?  In 48 games he put up 44 points..Grabovski's career high is 58 points, so Kadri almost matched Grabovski's career high over 82 games in 48 games.  Add that to the fact that Kadri is an RFA and they have the leverage with his contract for a little while then it makes total sense to go with Kadri over Grabovski.

Yes I am going to debate it. I don't put a ton of stock into the numbers of a shortened season. I want to see what Kadri can do over multiple 82 game seasons before I say whether or not he's on the same level or higher. He very well may be, or he could turn out to be a player who can't sustain that over a full NHL season and be more of a #2. But regardless, I'd rather they kept both.

 

[Frank E]

It's a shortsighted move based on poor usage in a short season with small sample size.

If it was all a hockey decision, I kind of agree.

Lots of these decisions get made in the name of team chemistry too, and it's pretty apparent that Grabbo wasn't enjoying his role.