How have the Leafs made out this off-season?

[Mack674]

I'm picking fly crap out of pepper here but Marty Brodeur also made it to free agency this summer. He said publicly that he seriously considered taking the Toronto offer (I wish) before resigning with the Devils. Burke did take a run at a veteran goalie this off-season.

I was so hoping that was going to happen... sigh.

But I guess the point Nik is making is correct. We have no real idea of the value of the trade until(at the least) we can see them progress with their respective clubs. So we have 13 months to debate it as it'll be that long before we see them in training camp.

Just to clarify a bit, my point isn't so much that you can't really assess a trade until it plays out on the ice(that's true to some extent though) because I do think it's fair to look at a trade when it happens and try to determine whether or not it made sense. I mean sometimes it just doesn't. Trading the best goalie prospect in the world for Boston's third stringer, for instance, was dumb the moment JFJ did it and I said as much.

My issue here is that I really don't think people are doing either. I think people are sort of talking themselves into JVR and not really addressing his issues. If you look at the thread here about the trade you get a pretty different picture of JVR(although not, admittedly, of Schenn who I fully admit I'm out of step with the majority on).

I guess you're right about that, I forgot to consider that playing on an offensively gifted team can be a good and bad thing when looking at the guys numbers. He definitely had a much better power play to play with there than he will here but here's hoping.

Just keep drafting and developing and take a run at any player thats available that makes sense and doesnt cost a fortune. If thats the MO Burke has right now, I'm okay with that. Still, until we get a goaltender or Reimer turns into a great starter, we're in tough for the playoffs.

 

[Tigger]

I'm picking fly crap out of pepper here but Marty Brodeur also made it to free agency this summer. He said publicly that he seriously considered taking the Toronto offer (I wish) before resigning with the Devils. Burke did take a run at a veteran goalie this off-season.

Flake called that one, in spite of having to kiss his feet for a while, I would have liked it.

:-*

Don't worry I spray them with Air Wick every morning.

The godz are kind...

 

[Rebel_1812]

While I agree the jury is still out, I think the Leafs got the player who's value was higher at the time of the trade.

Well, without going into your argument too much, I think you're missing my point a bit. Even if what you say here is true then I don't think it fundamentally changes my point. When two young players with untapped potential get dealt for each other how they're perceived at the time of the trade is ultimately secondary to what teams think they'll have a few years down the road.

And there is also the fact Schenn wasn't getting better with the leafs he was getting worse.  In that sense there wasn't much to lose because even if he turns around his game with philly, he would not have turned his game around in toronto.

 

[ZBBM]

While I agree the jury is still out, I think the Leafs got the player who's value was higher at the time of the trade.

Well, without going into your argument too much, I think you're missing my point a bit. Even if what you say here is true then I don't think it fundamentally changes my point. When two young players with untapped potential get dealt for each other how they're perceived at the time of the trade is ultimately secondary to what teams think they'll have a few years down the road.

And there is also the fact Schenn wasn't getting better with the leafs he was getting worse.  In that sense there wasn't much to lose because even if he turns around his game with philly, he would not have turned his game around in toronto.

Why?  Because he had some kind of inevitability clause in his contract that got waived when he was traded?  This makes no sense.

 

[lamajama]

Probably more due to the repeated examples of Toronto eating their young.

They rushed Schenn and of course, made him the soon-to-be next Captain of the team until Phaneuf arrived. Then when he hit some rough spots he became a whipping boy of course.

 

[Corn Flake]

Probably more due to the repeated examples of Toronto eating their young.

They rushed Schenn and of course, made him the soon-to-be next Captain of the team until Phaneuf arrived. Then when he hit some rough spots he became a whipping boy of course.

I'm not so sure the pressure on him was that great. Phaneuf took waaay more heat than Schenn as far as unfair criticism goes, and Burke calling Luke "future captain material" isn't exactly the type of crippling pressure that ruins a man. If your boss says you are "future executive material", that type of compliment usually motivates, not cause someone to suddenly do your job terribly and take on some wild expectation the whole company is now relying on you.

If they had actually made him captain, well that's a different story, but they didn't.

 

[Deebo]

According to Siegel, Burke said today at the Leaf Golf Tournament that he doesn't expect to make any more changes to the roster.

So unless JVR is a success as the 1st line centre, we will again have one of worst groups of centres in the NHL.

 

[Kin]

Probably more due to the repeated examples of Toronto eating their young.

They rushed Schenn and of course, made him the soon-to-be next Captain of the team until Phaneuf arrived. Then when he hit some rough spots he became a whipping boy of course.

Yeah, but I don't think it can really be chalked up to pressure so much as it is the way that the team gives up on guys too soon.

Maybe it's splitting hairs but while I agree people put a lot of weight on Schenn's shoulders I think that's going to be true of any top 5 pick. Where I think people went nuts is that they expected him to be a terrific NHL defenseman at 22. Regardless of how many years he's been in the league that's not particularly realistic.

If Schenn plays well for Philly I'm sure people will say that it's somehow proof that he should have been traded but it could just be a case of a defenseman developing at 23 or 24 which is pretty common.

 

[rdowdall]

According to Siegel, Burke said today at the Leaf Golf Tournament that he doesn't expect to make any more changes to the roster.

So unless JVR is a success as the 1st line centre, we will again have one of worst groups of centres in the NHL.

YAAAAH!!!!!  Status Quo.

 

[Stronger Than All]

According to Siegel, Burke said today at the Leaf Golf Tournament that he doesn't expect to make any more changes to the roster.

So unless JVR is a success as the 1st line centre, we will again have one of worst groups of centres in the NHL.

YAAAAH!!!!!  Status Quo.

And a complete contradiction to what he stated after the draft.

YAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!

 

[armche123]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=404954

 

[Bullfrog]

Probably more due to the repeated examples of Toronto eating their young.

They rushed Schenn and of course, made him the soon-to-be next Captain of the team until Phaneuf arrived. Then when he hit some rough spots he became a whipping boy of course.

Yeah, but I don't think it can really be chalked up to pressure so much as it is the way that the team gives up on guys too soon.

Maybe it's splitting hairs but while I agree people put a lot of weight on Schenn's shoulders I think that's going to be true of any top 5 pick. Where I think people went nuts is that they expected him to be a terrific NHL defenseman at 22. Regardless of how many years he's been in the league that's not particularly realistic.

If Schenn plays well for Philly I'm sure people will say that it's somehow proof that he should have been traded but it could just be a case of a defenseman developing at 23 or 24 which is pretty common.

I agree with every part of this. In fact, I'm sure that Philly expects Schenn to improve. They otherwise wouldn't have made that trade.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

According to Siegel, Burke said today at the Leaf Golf Tournament that he doesn't expect to make any more changes to the roster.

So unless JVR is a success as the 1st line centre, we will again have one of worst groups of centres in the NHL.

Carlyle also said that people made too much out of JVR playing at centre and that he'll try all sorts of options.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

According to Siegel, Burke said today at the Leaf Golf Tournament that he doesn't expect to make any more changes to the roster.

So unless JVR is a success as the 1st line centre, we will again have one of worst groups of centres in the NHL.

YAAAAH!!!!!  Status Quo.

And a complete contradiction to what he stated after the draft.

YAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!

He said it was highly unlikely he wouldn't make any more moves.  Is "highly unlikely" a definite in your eyes?  For the majority, I'd hope, "highly unlikely" is not a definitive statement, and leaves some room for it to not happen.

*Assuming my memory is correct and those were the words he used

 

[caver]

He also qualified it by saying that because the trade market had been so quiet he did not see more trades happening for him. That could change as soon as a new CBA is signed.

 

[#1PilarFan]

He said it was highly unlikely he wouldn't make any more moves.  Is "highly unlikely" a definite in your eyes?  For the majority, I'd hope, "highly unlikely" is not a definitive statement, and leaves some room for it to not happen.

*Assuming my memory is correct and those were the words he used

He also said it was highly unlikely that this roster would be the same come opening night a month or so ago with Bob McCown, so I must say this is disheartening news. I appreciate that the prospect of a new CBA muddies the waters a little bit, but maybe it'd be best if Burke stopped saying things like this for a while.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I don't think we're going to get a real argument from anyone about Burke's rather large mouth and how he should keep it shut.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

He said it was highly unlikely he wouldn't make any more moves.  Is "highly unlikely" a definite in your eyes?  For the majority, I'd hope, "highly unlikely" is not a definitive statement, and leaves some room for it to not happen.

*Assuming my memory is correct and those were the words he used

He also said it was highly unlikely that this roster would be the same come opening night a month or so ago with Bob McCown, so I must say this is disheartening news. I appreciate that the prospect of a new CBA muddies the waters a little bit, but maybe it'd be best if Burke stopped saying things like this for a while.

I think that is what I am referring to.  I still say it's not a direct contradiction, he left some small wiggle room in there, and as you say, the new CBA muddies things - there hasn't seemed to be many moves since the initial FA signings from any teams.

 

[#1PilarFan]

I think that is what I am referring to.  I still say it's not a direct contradiction, he left some small wiggle room in there, and as you say, the new CBA muddies things - there hasn't seemed to be many moves since the initial FA signings from any teams.

Yeah, apparently I didn't really read your post. If I had I probably wouldn't have repeated the exact same thing you said. My bad.

 

[maplesyrup]

Probably old news as I get caught up from being away a few days but I didn't see these posted anywhere;

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle
Randy Carlyle says reports that JVR will play centre were all overblown. Wants to try different things down middle, etc.

David Alter ‏@DavidAlter590
Carlyle says talk that JVR centring the top line is premature at this point. #leafs

Hopefully someone really steps up and surprises.