Islanders @ Leafs - Oct. 17th, 7:00pm - SN

[cw]

It does seem that way. But you know what...if they do miss the playoffs this year (highly likely IMO), getting assets for Matthews might be the best way to go. I've heard speculation about his next contract and the numbers are in the $20 million range. I guess if he returns to the consistent 50-60 goal play driver that he was, that's ok. But even then - they'll still have no defense and questionable goaltending, no true second line center and other problems including lack of prospects and draft capital. It will be years of decline and stagnation with a few high end offensive players in the mix for the occasional highlight. Then again, maybe McDavid really wants to play in his home town...

I don't know if there is any way out other than a full rebuild starting next year. Maybe the only possible course if they really want to have a chance at the playoffs in the next couple of years would be to trade McKenna for a true #1 defender, if that's even possible (especially if they think McDavid wants to come here). Let's face it, McKennas best years will be after Matthews and Nylander are either in decline or gone. He could be the building block for the next iteration of the Leafs, but maybe he wouldn't even want to stick around for a multi-year bottoming out rebuild.

I should probably stop posting as I'm really down on this team right now.

To me, the effort to keep Matthews is likely a directive from the MLSE board. Chayka's willingness to try probably helped get him the job. When you look at it from Matthews' perspective, assuming he wants to win a Cup in his career, the chances of retaining him after Marner's departure were not great. The window for that core 4 or 5 was closing. They're a bubble team who may or may not make the playoffs. It is sports so wild things are remotely possible but not very likely with this aged crew.

All management makes mistakes. Good management recognizes it faster and addresses quicker. I have some limited fault for Chayka because he's probably doing what he had to say he'd do to get the job - what his bosses wanted. He's not stupid - he read the room. Pelley basically told us during the search. A top GM would convince the MLSE board of the best path to win a championship and persuade them to follow that path. But Pelley seemed in no mood to listen to that. He already had his own ideas.

As you say, it might be for the best that they cut their losses and get what they can for a rebuild because it is getting increasingly unlikely Matthews can be re-signed. Let's see how they do over the next few weeks - to see if they can fix their defensive issues.

I wouldn't trade McKenna, Cowan, Danford, any of the top prospects or top picks. It just pushes the window before they can rebuild a contender further.

I'm a Leafs fan. I'm going to pull for them no matter what. I'd prefer they be smart about it and recognize the situation. The chances of them winning a Cup sooner are better if they do that. But if they bugger it all up like they have the last 60 or so years, I'll be disappointed but still cheer for them and hope to see one more parade.

 

[Bender]

Let alone the fact that being terrible this year and next don't yield another high first rounder so a true rebuild is a bit tough. We may have to just take out medicine next year and be ok with giving the Flyers whatever pick it becomes.

 

[Chris]

I wouldn't trade McKenna, Cowan, Danford, any of the top prospects or top picks. It just pushes the window before they can rebuild a contender further.

I wouldn't want to trade any of them either but I suspect at least one of them will be moved. Who was it - Friedman? Reporting the Leafs are willing to move an A-level asset for defensive help. How many of them do they have that don't have NMCs...McKenna, Cowan, Danford, maybe Koblar, maybe AA. I don't think you can trade McKenna unless you're getting a true #1 defender back, someone young enough to make it worthwhile. I fear one of the other players will be moved for yet another mid-level defender who will be forced to play too high in the lineup. We'll see.

 

[cw]

I wouldn't want to trade any of them either but I suspect at least one of them will be moved. Who was it - Friedman? Reporting the Leafs are willing to move an A-level asset for defensive help. How many of them do they have that don't have NMCs...McKenna, Cowan, Danford, maybe Koblar, maybe AA. I don't think you can trade McKenna unless you're getting a true #1 defender back, someone young enough to make it worthwhile. I fear one of the other players will be moved for yet another mid-level defender who will be forced to play too high in the lineup. We'll see.

Ignoring the talent exchanged, I wouldn't argue if it was youth for youth - pretty close exchange in terms of age. But I think they're going to want a vet with experience to solve their defensive problem.
McKenna seems insane to attempt to trade. I doubt they would ever get a fair return for his potential.
I wasn't Cowan's biggest fan last season. But his forechecking this season is becoming something I do not want them to part with. He's making me ask myself when we last had someone that good on the forecheck.
I also feel like Danford is coming along. He's becoming a better two way dman.

Minten is doing well in Boston. With Tavares down, we're missing him. I'm tired of the rentals

 

[Chris]

Ignoring the talent exchanged, I wouldn't argue if it was youth for youth - pretty close exchange in terms of age. But I think they're going to want a vet with experience to solve their defensive problem.
McKenna seems insane to attempt to trade. I doubt they would ever get a fair return for his potential.
I wasn't Cowan's biggest fan last season. But his forechecking this season is becoming something I do not want them to part with. He's making me ask myself when we last had someone that good on the forecheck.
I also feel like Danford is coming along. He's becoming a better two way dman.

Minten is doing well in Boston. With Tavares down, we're missing him. I'm tired of the rentals

Fair enough but regarding McKenna - we've just gone through 10 years of a top-heavy team led by high octane but non-physical players backed by a poor defense. That got us into the second round twice. I'd be willing to look at a new model for the next iteration - one led by a true #1 defender, and if it took McKenna to get that...I'm listening. Don't think it will happen in any case. Maybe they can draft one in 2029. That's all I have to say on the subject.

 

[cw]

Fair enough but regarding McKenna - we've just gone through 10 years of a top-heavy team led by high octane but non-physical players backed by a poor defense. That got us into the second round twice. I'd be willing to look at a new model for the next iteration - one led by a true #1 defender, and if it took McKenna to get that...I'm listening. Don't think it will happen in any case. Maybe they can draft one in 2029. That's all I have to say on the subject.

You get some sympathy from me.
Some part of the core 4 should have been flipped
Even then:
Rielly didn't get a decent righthanded partner for very long
Top 4 was iffy
And what starting goalie did they get who could credibly uplift them to a Cup?

Stud dmen are hard to come by. #1 dmen are easier to get.
There should have been more help on the Leafs back end.

You wouldn't want the reverse either. Great dmen without some quality supporting cast in the forwards or goal. Need the balance.