Jays Roster Discussion

[Andy007]

I guess Shapiro should have said "We are, just like literally every other organization would do/has done in our situation, keeping Guerrero in the minors to avoid starting his service clock and to keep an extra asset on our 40-man roster that would otherwise be gone for nothing, because the season is over and there is not one reasonable reason to bring Guerrero up right now."

I mean he could have said that but I'm not sure that's the smartest thing for him to say.

 

[cabber24]

I guess Shapiro should have said "We are, just like literally every other organization would do/has done in our situation, keeping Guerrero in the minors to avoid starting his service clock and to keep an extra asset on our 40-man roster that would otherwise be gone for nothing, because the season is over and there is not one reasonable reason to bring Guerrero up right now."

I mean he could have said that but I'm not sure that's the smartest thing for him to say.

He should say that. The Jays are not violating any rules.

 

[Kin]

I don't for a second believe that if Shapiro had been forthright about service time concerns that the fans who look to give him crap about everything wouldn't then talk about how terrible it is that he doesn't care about giving fans buying September tickets something to cheer for.

 

[Andy007]

I guess Shapiro should have said "We are, just like literally every other organization would do/has done in our situation, keeping Guerrero in the minors to avoid starting his service clock and to keep an extra asset on our 40-man roster that would otherwise be gone for nothing, because the season is over and there is not one reasonable reason to bring Guerrero up right now."

I mean he could have said that but I'm not sure that's the smartest thing for him to say.

He should say that. The Jays are not violating any rules.

So, who cares what he says? Not only do I agree with Nik about these fans still finding a way to give him crap but, regardless, the proper course of action is still being taken. I much prefer that than to having a nice, young, upstart Canadian President/GM who keeps making terrible decisions but is always up front about them.

 

[TimKerr]

I guess Shapiro should have said "We are, just like literally every other organization would do/has done in our situation, keeping Guerrero in the minors to avoid starting his service clock and to keep an extra asset on our 40-man roster that would otherwise be gone for nothing, because the season is over and there is not one reasonable reason to bring Guerrero up right now."

I mean he could have said that but I'm not sure that's the smartest thing for him to say.

He should say that. The Jays are not violating any rules.

So, who cares what he says? Not only do I agree with Nik about these fans still finding a way to give him crap but, regardless, the proper course of action is still being taken. I much prefer that than to having a nice, young, upstart Canadian President/GM who keeps making terrible decisions but is always up front about them.

Also, I've watched Vlad play live a few times and yes his defence is not that strong. So yes they are saving his service time but his defence isn't good either.

 

[Kin]

Another thing to consider is that with a manager who's probably on the way out and a clubhouse full of underperforming vets there's a real chance that it might not be the best environment to give a kid his first taste of the big leagues and, if that's true, it's also the sort of thing you can't really say.

 

[cabber24]

Another thing to consider is that with a manager who's probably on the way out and a clubhouse full of underperforming vets there's a real chance that it might not be the best environment to give a kid his first taste of the big leagues and, if that's true, it's also the sort of thing you can't really say.

By the way, I totally agree with keeping Vlad in the minors to save a year of control. If him being up didn't burn a year of control he would be up right now. To suggest he wouldn't be up otherwise is crazy.

 

[Frank E]

Another thing to consider is that with a manager who's probably on the way out and a clubhouse full of underperforming vets there's a real chance that it might not be the best environment to give a kid his first taste of the big leagues and, if that's true, it's also the sort of thing you can't really say.

This is how I feel, and I agree that it's not something you can really say.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Soon-to-be Free agent Marco Estrada, in what may very well have been his last game as a Blue Jay, had this to say:

[tweet]1044450407966076929[/tweet]

..."They?ve always been behind me. They?ve been the greatest fans ever and how could I not be thankful? It?s been awesome. Hopefully, it?s not my last one. But if it is here, I?m thankful for everything the fans have given me, for their support. I love it here. I love Toronto and I love the fans so I?m thankful for everything they did for me.?

Good luck to you, Marco.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Lourdes Gurriel Jr. (hamstring injury), Aaron Sanchez (soon to have surgery on his troublesome blistered finger -- tendon problems), and Devon Travis have not accompanied the Jays on their seaso finale road trip in Tampa Bay.

Throw in Marcus Stroman, long shut down due to blistered finger issues).

Thank goodness the season's about over.

 

[hockeyfan1]

As stated elsewhere in this thread, there could be a sticking point when the next MLB CBA agreement comes to the fore (strike?) having to do with the subject of service time (for prospect callups) or to put it simply, "contract control" by teams.

It has been reported that Vladdy Guerrero Jr., was upset about not being on the September callup list (as most baseball observers wondered why he was still in the minors when he clearly had passed that scope).  The Jays Shapiro had his reasons and the MLBPA clearly did not take this kindly (as applied to teams all across the league).

As The Athletiic's in-depth article explained, baseball is indeed a convoluted sport, in fact the only sport of the major professional leagues in North America that limits, controls, or manipulate's  a young prospects contract to buy back time, etc.  Plenty of solutions were looked at or suggested in the article, but none perfect (the NHL model, the NFL & NBA models) to name a few.  Each had it's plusses & minuses.  Besides, for their own reasons given, many teams believe that the minuses outweigh the plusses.

Anyway, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. may file a grievance against the Jays organization.

Some way to begin a relationship with the parent squad, eh?  And it may not stop with Guerrero, as others may take the initiative or the impetus to do same.


https://jaysjournal.com/2018/09/30/blue-jays-report-vladimir-guerrero-jr-may-file-grievance/

 

[hockeyfan1]

Oh dear Lord, how ridiculous does this sound?  (old but valid tweet!)

[tweet]1040739292937510916[/tweet]


Story: (older article)
https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/report-blue-jays-rejected-donaldson-trade-included-star-rookie/


Meantime, the Blue Jays receive the "player-to-be-named-later" in the Josh Donaldson trade  -- pitcher Julian Merryweather, Tommy John surgery and all:
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/blue-jays-acquire-julian-merryweather-indians-complete-josh-donaldson-trade-163058381.html

 

[hockeyfan1]

Blue Jays trade Diaz to the Astros for pitching prospect
Trent Thornton.

https://jaysjournal.com/2018/11/18/blue-jays-trading-aledmys-diaz-says-2019-shortstop-plans/amp/

Thornton comes from the Astros Triple A and as yet to start in the Majors.

More here:
https://jaysjournal.com/2018/11/17/blue-jays-quick-hits-trent-thornton/

 

[sickbeast]

Us fans have every right in the world to be damn pissed at Shapiro and Rogers.  And quite frankly I don't give a flying **** what Nik or anyone else thinks of that.  Talk to any seasons ticket holder and see.  The cost of the tickets have nearly tripled over the past three years, and they have been nickle and diming the fans while putting an inferior product on the field.  This is the only business I have seen that charges three times as much for a vastly inferior product.  That would be like GM suddenly charging Corvette prices for the Impala.  No one would buy them.  And Rogers Centre is going to be a ghost town, you'll see.  Largest attendance drop in the MLB last season AFAIK.  This is just the beginning.  Shapiro is a corporate shill, pure and plain.  I can't stand the man.  The fake perma smile.  He's so fake.  Doesn't communicate with the fans and when he does he tows the corporate line.  I thought he was brought in to renovate/refurbish Rogers Centre.  What happened to that?  And what happened to the natural grass Beeston was working on?

You don't have to read between the tea leaves too deeply to find that the players can't stand working for this guy either.  Stupid is as stupid does I guess.  Rogers has no business owning a sports franchise.  The lunatics are running the asylum.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

 

[Kin]

If anyone out there is interested in the actual ticket price increases over the last few years, which range from 24% to 110%, Andrew Stoeten has the numbers here:

https://bluejaysnation.com/2017/07/31/hey-look-its-the-jays-season-ticket-prices-from-2014-to-2018/

Other than that, I'm not sure what to say beyond if people think they're not getting a good deal for the money they should...stop buying tickets?

 

[Kin]

And another worthwhile Stoeten piece about the turf and possible stadium renos:

https://bluejaysnation.com/2017/02/13/don-t-hold-your-breath-for-rogers-centre-grass/

And then, from Jays on the Couch, here's what Shapiro has said directly on the issue:

If it had not been a historical issue for the Blue Jays, anyone sitting in my chair would have ascertained that in the scope of things we?re looking at this is probably not realistic. Out of respect to what a focal point it has been here historically, we spent the time to understand what it would cost to retrofit a building that has no drainage, that was not meant to have grass and how we would actually install grass and keep it alive with the roof never being open?what it would involve in year to year maintenance?

I can tell you, when you start to get the numbers ? you can tell by the way I?m talking about it ? that would begin to not necessarily be a small part of a renovation, but grass would have to be one of the focal points of the entire renovation to make that happen.

For any TLR types out there, Beeston commissioned a study on the feasibility of natural grass, Shapiro got the study and it doesn't look particularly feasible.

 

[cabber24]

This team depresses me. I have never been so disinterested in the Blue Jays then I am right now. It's hard to not feel like the fans were abandoned. We had the best viewership and attendance and what do we get, higher tickets prices and a garbage team. Trade everyone for 36 RHP prospects.

 

[IJustLurkHere]

I find it really odd the difference in fan perceptions between the Leafs rebuild and the Jays rebuild. When the Leafs finally tore it down everyone breathed a sigh of relief and got on board with the tank. When the Jays have now much more pragmatically recognised that the 2015 & '16 teams were built on selling the farm system, and taken the logical conclusion they need to rebuild, there seems to be no sympathy at all.

I'm relatively optimistic... 2019, and probably 2020 will be about seeing which of the group of kids can stick at MLB. While we're probably not signing FAs and taking another run until at least 2021, there are a lot of guys on the doorstep, and there's no set date on these things, so there's room to dream.

I wonder if sometimes the lack of draft pick trading in MLB makes it hard for teams that are rebuilding to convey that message effectively (though, with development times in MLB, it probably stops teams from crucifying themselves into 10 year long shot plans).

I get not necessarily being excited by watching young players develop, but the degree of seeming anger towards the Jays front office for not being able to continue propping up the 2015/16 group perplexes me.

 

[Kin]

I find it really odd the difference in fan perceptions between the Leafs rebuild and the Jays rebuild. When the Leafs finally tore it down everyone breathed a sigh of relief and got on board with the tank. When the Jays have now much more pragmatically recognised that the 2015 & '16 teams were built on selling the farm system, and taken the logical conclusion they need to rebuild, there seems to be no sympathy at all.

I think it largely has to do with the fact that the Leafs rebuild was done with the team largely floundering and unable to make the playoffs whereas the Jays rebuild, to some, started when they were a playoff team. The problem is that 2017 season. Some people don't see it as the inevitable result of Anthopoulos investing so heavily in older players to secure the playoff runs. Some people instead see it as a result of Shapiro/Atkins taking over the team.