Jerseygate 14/15

[moon111]

I remember being solidly behind the 80's Leafs.  One big change I see is $.  Didn't know what players were getting paid before.  Now I look at David Clarkson and feel a hate that I never felt for the Montreal Canadiens.  The impression is these lazy millionaires won't do what it takes to win.  At work, I'd like to be constantly building to, but sometimes you have to do the dirty jobs.  Grind concrete, pick-up garbage, pressure-wash human waste, etc.. it's not glamorous, but it's what the organization needs to be successful.  Leaf forwards would rather be taking risks to score a goal then back-check.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I think it's great that JvR is calling out the fans that are ready to hang themselves after a couple losses and setting up their lawn chair on the parade route after a couple wins.

People still think these fans exist?

Although an exaggeration, yes I do think they still exist. I have a hard time believing that the guys throwing the jerseys on the ice the last couple times are the knowledgable hockey fans. Perhaps in the start they were. Now they're doing it because it's the 'in' thing to do.

I get the frustration. I'm going on 40 years of being a fan of this team. I protest the team by doing the following: I turn the channel and I stop purchasing their gear. How the heck spending upwards of $100 on a ticket and upwards of $100 on a Jersey and then giving them the jersey back is a protest is beyond me.

 

[L K]

I think it's great that JvR is calling out the fans that are ready to hang themselves after a couple losses and setting up their lawn chair on the parade route after a couple wins.

People still think these fans exist?

They do, but it's a very small portion of the fanbase, much like every other team has fans like that.

I don't have a problem with the players being upset at the fans for doing stuff like throwing jerseys on the ice.  For one, you shouldn't be throwing someone on the ice in the first place.  Second, the players should have pride in the sweater and that kind of action is incredibly disrespectful toward it. 

That being said, when the team can't be bothered to give an effort half the year, the fans have a right to be displeased and to show that displeasure.  Whether that is booing or not showing up to the games, well that is a personal right.  If the players dont' like it, play better.  I think a losing team that works hard doesn't get nearly the same amount of vitriol as this team is getting.

 

[Rebel_1812]

I think for a player to make the NHL or any other professional sport, they have to be super competitive, the leader of all the teams they have every played on, excelled in their position and have dedicated a huge portion of their lives to developing the skills to become an NHL player.
I don't buy the I don't care argument. They do care and very much, but it takes a load of talent and a huge amount of chemistry to make a winning team.  I think this team is frustrated as many teams are. They want to win more than anything.

I've almost always been of the same opinion, but if it were true, I would expect them to not consistently get outshot, year after year!, and not have a coach that is pulling his hair out trying to get them to listen. Hence my growing concern that they don't care. Maybe it's just that they don't care as much as other teams.

I assume you're one of the guys that think Carlyle is the problem?

They were just as bad defensively under Wilson.  It is a case of blue and white disease as Burke put it.

 

[Joe S.]

I remember being solidly behind the 80's Leafs.  One big change I see is $.  Didn't know what players were getting paid before.  Now I look at David Clarkson and feel a hate that I never felt for the Montreal Canadiens.  The impression is these lazy millionaires won't do what it takes to win.  At work, I'd like to be constantly building to, but sometimes you have to do the dirty jobs.  Grind concrete, pick-up garbage, pressure-wash human waste, etc.. it's not glamorous, but it's what the organization needs to be successful.  Leaf forwards would rather be taking risks to score a goal then back-check.

The thing though that I see with Clarkson, is not an effort issue. He really looks like he's trying out there, unfortunately, he's just not that good.

He's just in the wrong era - I think if he was playing in the clutch and grab time of the NHL, he'd probably be having a Roberts-light career.

 

[Courtnall]

Does this annoy anyone else?

On jersey's being tossed onto the ice in Winnipeg: ?That?s just what we go through playing in Toronto,? van Riemsdyk said. ?There?s going to be people jumping off the bandwagon just as quick as they?re jumping back on.? http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2015/01/04/maple_leafs_possession_regression_raises_carlyle_questions_feschuk.html

It's not the dismissal of the jersey toss that irks me. It sounds like he's playing the victim card. That's what they go through at the hands of the fans. As if we're being unreasonable. We've been watching a team of losers for a decade now. There should be some empathy from the team. Yes, I know JVR hasn't been around for those 10 years, but that's a lame comment too, which others in the past have made (not JVR that I know of).

I mean boohoo, you have to see a jersey get tossed on the ice once in a while. The fans have it much worse, we have to watch you jerks play!

I just can't shake the feeling that the players don't give a crap if they win or lose.

I actually thought that was the best answer to that question yet

 

[LuncheonMeat]

I read someone threw a jersey on the ice at the Marlies game last night.  I understand fans being frustrated, but that seems a little misplaced.

 

[Highlander]

I agree with Grapes on this and sorry if I offend anyone.  These people are creeps (and the play of either team for how many years is not in play  on this), they want to show their little hissy fit but throwing a jersey on the ice. How utterly disrespectful, in my fathers day these people would have been pounded by the decent fans surrounding them, or hissed out of the stadium.
Worse it is a graphic display of flaunting wealth, that they can afford to toss a jersey on the ice. A jersey that many kidz would covet if they or their families had the extra cash to buy one.

So heres a suggesting for the totally discusting individuals whom think they actually have a right to behave in a such a completely childish manner in public.  Take your jersey to a Goodwill or Sally Army store and give it to some family whom would actually treasure such a thing.

Then never return to the arena and turn off the Leafs and find something else to take your time.

You are not fans, you are spoiled children and this is the problem with our world today, to many spoiled entitled people who's narcissistic qualities are always on display..If you cannot stand the Leaf heat then please step out of the fire, you are not welcome to stand beside true fans.

Not sorry for this rant, its been pis__ing me off for a long time now.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

I agree with Grapes on this and sorry if I offend anyone.  These people are creeps (and the play of either team for how many years is not in play  on this), they want to show their little hissy fit but throwing a jersey on the ice. How utterly disrespectful, in my fathers day these people would have been pounded by the decent fans surrounding them, or hissed out of the stadium.
Worse it is a graphic display of flaunting wealth, that they can afford to toss a jersey on the ice. A jersey that many kidz would covet if they or their families had the extra cash to buy one.

So heres a suggesting for the totally discusting individuals whom think they actually have a right to behave in a such a completely childish manner in public.  Take your jersey to a Goodwill or Sally Army store and give it to some family whom would actually treasure such a thing.

Then never return to the arena and turn off the Leafs and find something else to take your time.

You are not fans, you are spoiled children and this is the problem with our world today, to many spoiled entitled people who's narcissistic qualities are always on display..If you cannot stand the Leaf heat then please step out of the fire, you are not welcome to stand beside true fans.

Not sorry for this rant, its been pis__ing me off for a long time now.

I'm not going to tell you that you should have another opinion because I don't really care one way or another.

I'd just point out that, I'm guessing it the Leafs "in your fathers day" got beat 9-2 and had sucked for the better part of 10 years, jerseys may have been thrown on the ice. The other thing at play here is the cost of a ticket. Also tickets weren't even close to the same price in those days (as a percentage of income), athletes weren't getting paid as much etc.

Personally I wouldn't do it, but if someone feels disgusted enough to do that? Well they paid their ticket and all......

In Italy, an Opera audience has been known to throw rotten vegetables. I'd say the hockey players are getting off easy (that and they can cry themselves to sleep on stacks of money).

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I'd just point out that, I'm guessing it the Leafs "in your fathers day" got beat 9-2 and had sucked for the better part of 10 years, jerseys may have been thrown on the ice. The other thing at play here is the cost of a ticket. Also tickets weren't even close to the same price in those days (as a percentage of income), athletes weren't getting paid as much etc.

What were ticket prices in those days?

Personally I wouldn't do it, but if someone feels disgusted enough to do that? Well they paid their ticket and all......

So if you pay for a ticket you can do whatever you want?

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

I'd just point out that, I'm guessing it the Leafs "in your fathers day" got beat 9-2 and had sucked for the better part of 10 years, jerseys may have been thrown on the ice. The other thing at play here is the cost of a ticket. Also tickets weren't even close to the same price in those days (as a percentage of income), athletes weren't getting paid as much etc.

What were ticket prices in those days?

Personally I wouldn't do it, but if someone feels disgusted enough to do that? Well they paid their ticket and all......

So if you pay for a ticket you can do whatever you want?

If you have time to read, there are some posts in here comparing 1992 to 2010. (I'm linking hf boards, the horror).

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=822919

I'll look for some prices from the 40's and 50's.

 

[moon111]

I think it's great to see people disassociate with a sports club.  The whole 'we' won gold/game/Cup/etc bothers me.  Wasn't me winning or losing.  It's not the jersey throwing that gets me, it's the fact they'll probably be there the next game with another jersey on.

 

[Highlander]

My Father came to Canada from Scotland in 48 after serving in the RAF, in the first years didnt have much money but Mom and Dad went to the Leafs games and stood behind the greys.  Yes they used to have a standing section way up there and it cost a few bucks to get in. This is where the real hardcore fans went.
I can tell you knowing my old man. If someone had tossed a sweater on the ice, my old man would have tossed the dude who did the tossing. And I think many other citizens of the day new right from wrong. 
In an age where almost any public behaviour is acceptable have we fallen to such a degree that public displays of childish nature are accepted as the norm? It is what it is, narcistic entitled behaviour.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I agree, if the Leafs are going to stop having enforcers the ACC should at least have a few more brawls in the stands from time to time.

 

[Highlander]

CTB, I know you say that in jest, but really they didnt have many brawls in the stands because people seemed to know how to behave.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

CTB, I know you say that in jest, but really they didnt have many brawls in the stands because people seemed to know how to behave.

It was in jest yeah but you're still saying that somebody's stupidity should be met with mob justice, which isn't really a good answer.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I'd just point out that, I'm guessing it the Leafs "in your fathers day" got beat 9-2 and had sucked for the better part of 10 years, jerseys may have been thrown on the ice. The other thing at play here is the cost of a ticket. Also tickets weren't even close to the same price in those days (as a percentage of income), athletes weren't getting paid as much etc.

What were ticket prices in those days?

Personally I wouldn't do it, but if someone feels disgusted enough to do that? Well they paid their ticket and all......

So if you pay for a ticket you can do whatever you want?

If you have time to read, there are some posts in here comparing 1992 to 2010. (I'm linking hf boards, the horror).

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=822919

I'll look for some prices from the 40's and 50's.

Thanks!  I found literally nothing when I googled it, which surprised me.

 

[bustaheims]

CTB, I know you say that in jest, but really they didnt have many brawls in the stands because people seemed to know how to behave.

It was in jest yeah but you're still saying that somebody's stupidity should be met with mob justice, which isn't really a good answer.

Yeah. All that's going to lead to is larger, more troubling issues.

 

[Highlander]

Not advocating mob justice at all, no one back then would have dreamed of doing such a thing as they had basic respect. If someone had, then I think the crowd would actually be disgusted with such behaviour. So no fights as there was nothing to fight about as their were norms that society accepted and regulated behaviour.
I was in Greece once and notice a guy weaving down the street plastered.  People were actually going up to this dude and spitting on him. You see public drunkeness in Greece is just not acceptable behaviour. And people do not tolerate it.
I think we have really lost some of our moral compass along the way. Lots of articles about the new generations sense of entitlement. That they deserve to be given great jobs, and everything else.  I am simply stating that sweater tossing is another example of this behaviour.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I was in Greece once and notice a guy weaving down the street plastered.  People were actually going up to this dude and spitting on him. You see public drunkeness in Greece is just not acceptable behaviour. And people do not tolerate it.
I think we have really lost some of our moral compass along the way.

I think that story proves your point but not in the way that you think.