Kadri Misses Meeting - Sent Home

[Chris]

I do find it a little odd that they first announced one game, now have re-announced as "at least 2 more games". Sounds almost like they're asking Kadri to change something immediately and will base the exact suspension length on how he responds.

Then again, Shanahan always seemed to enjoy suspending Leaf players when he was the league's discipline czar, perhaps he just misses that.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

The lesson seems to be, you can check out on the ice as long as you're on time for practices and meetings.

This really has absolutely nothing to do with on-ice results.

We also have no idea what his other offences were and how serious they were.

I'm guessing that if they were serious he would've already been a scratch.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I do find it a little odd that they first announced one game, now have re-announced as "at least 2 more games". Sounds almost like they're asking Kadri to change something immediately and will base the exact suspension length on how he responds.

To be clear, the Leafs never actually originally said how many games Kadri would be sitting. Maybe they just felt that they shouldn't rush into any punishments and it took them some time to ultimately decide how many games he'd be out.

 

[Frank E]

Oh good.  I was hoping to see people passing judgment on the team without knowing anything about what Kadri has done.

 

[Bullfrog]

And from the outside perspective, I find the lack of information disappointing.  While we aren't entitled to the nitty gritty.  Is it just a frequent habit of Kadri being late, not paying attention in meetings?  Is he constantly breaking curfew?  Has he done something inappropriate to one of the players/families in the dressing room that has caused a problem.  I just find that with a team with as poor an image as this one has, making vague suspensions just seems to draw in more questioning and something that might be a bunch of minor infractions is just going to draw a bunch of questioning to an already poisoned lockerroom.

And to be honest, if it was needing this kind of punishment, why not just come out and let it be known rather than suspend him for the Islanders game...then wait until this morning to suspend him more.  It just repopulates a story that could potentially be over and done with.

I disagree. I think these issues are team issues and there should be no obligation to discuss them in the media. There are perhaps some advantages to discussing them, but I personally have zero interest in the reason for the suspension. I think because of the current situation it's even less important to discuss.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

Did Kadri go Full Tlusty?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Haven't seen this mentioned here yet, and I missed it in earlier coverage:

During Shanahan?s rookie season (1987-88), New Jersey uberboss Lou Lamoriello suspended him three games for lateness. The Hall of Famer never forgot it. He referenced it when making the announcement.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leafs-shanahan-never-forgot-suspension/

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I can't really recall any incidents of good young players being scratched (on a horrific team)for lack of professionalism. For bad play, lack a defensive awareness type things, sure, a game here a game there. Multiple games in a row? Again, nothing comes to mind, and I follow a lot of the league through fantasy everyday.

To circle back to this, probably won't be exact examples, but see my post above about Shanahan as a rookie as well as some more recent examples (again from the above-linked Friedman article):

Joffrey Lupul admitted Monday he was once benched for a game while with Anaheim under similar circumstances, but no one knew.

Last night, the Dallas Stars sat Cody Eakin for disciplinary reasons in Philadelphia. Lindy Ruff and Jim Nill declined further comment, saying it was dealt with internally. Barely a peep. Eakin should send a gift basket.

One coach texted, ?This happens more often than you think. The coaches are constantly trying to protect the players, but also have accountability? which is a very, very hard balance.?

They?ve spent a lot effort on Kadri. Ron Wilson would never comment about it, but players used to say he would constantly meet privately with him, trying to explain the opportunity he had to be successful in Toronto if he took on- and off-ice work more seriously. Dallas Eakins was harder on him in the AHL than any other player, for the same reason.

Also, that Ron Wilson stuff is totally new considering the heat he took for being tough on Kadri.

 

[Frank E]

I always thought that Wilson got a unnecessarily rough ride with the media here in Toronto...then again, I also thought Carlyle got an overly rough ride considering the roster he had to work with. 

 

[LuncheonMeat]

I do find it a little odd that they first announced one game, now have re-announced as "at least 2 more games". Sounds almost like they're asking Kadri to change something immediately and will base the exact suspension length on how he responds.

To be clear, the Leafs never actually originally said how many games Kadri would be sitting. Maybe they just felt that they shouldn't rush into any punishments and it took them some time to ultimately decide how many games he'd be out.

Just thinking out loud.  Perhaps Kadri has a habit of being late, and has been warned multiple times.  So, they decide to punish him for one game and sit him against the Islanders.  After that decision/announcement, Kadri gets up in front of the media and says (paraphrasing) this is the first time something like this has ever happened in his career.  Shanahan sees/hears that and blows his stack, realizing Kadri has learned nothing, and lays down further punishment.

 

[Zee]

Bad for Kadri and team morale, good for tanking.

 

[moon111]

The Leafs could get more out of Kadri if he were a true professional.  Even not getting enough sleep is letting himself, the team, and fans down.  Must be awful tempting to be partying at his age, with his money, with his notoriety. 

 

[cw]

The Leafs could get more out of Kadri if he were a true professional.  Even not getting enough sleep is letting himself, the team, and fans down.  Must be awful tempting to be partying at his age, with his money, with his notoriety.

He's 24 years old, 25 next October. I realize in some respects, that's still somewhat young but they're paying him millions to perform. Shanahan is basically saying "grow up". And the fact that they've effectively been saying this to him for years without a reliable response ... that's sad. Doesn't speak well for his character. Some talent appears to be there but it's currently not a solid character you can reliably build around. That's something this team needs.

I'm close to concluding: sign him to a short term deal and trade him before it's over so you recover something of value.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

The Leafs could get more out of Kadri if he were a true professional.  Even not getting enough sleep is letting himself, the team, and fans down.  Must be awful tempting to be partying at his age, with his money, with his notoriety.

He's 24 years old, 25 next October. I realize in some respects, that's still somewhat young but they're paying him millions to perform. Shanahan is basically saying "grow up". And the fact that they've effectively been saying this to him for years without a reliable response ... that's sad. Doesn't speak well for his character. Some talent appears to be there but it's currently not a solid character you can reliably build around. That's something this team needs.

I'm close to concluding: sign him to a short term deal and trade him before it's over so you recover something of value.

I wonder, if the Leafs end up having to go to arbitration with Kadri, do they trade him?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Some talent appears to be there

That's an understatement really.  He's performed very well the past three seasons, comparable to some big names without getting the same offensive opportunities/minutes.

 

[ZBBM]

The Leafs could get more out of Kadri if he were a true professional.  Even not getting enough sleep is letting himself, the team, and fans down.  Must be awful tempting to be partying at his age, with his money, with his notoriety.

He's 24 years old, 25 next October. I realize in some respects, that's still somewhat young but they're paying him millions to perform. Shanahan is basically saying "grow up". And the fact that they've effectively been saying this to him for years without a reliable response ... that's sad. Doesn't speak well for his character. Some talent appears to be there but it's currently not a solid character you can reliably build around. That's something this team needs.

I'm close to concluding: sign him to a short term deal and trade him before it's over so you recover something of value.

My impression is that he doesn't lack for self-confidence, and maybe has an excess of it.  Not necessarily a bad thing in an ultra-competitive environment, but if it translates into a sense of entitlement and thus to lack of work effort, you have a problem.  And in Kadri's case, it needs to be tempered by the fact that his achievements to date have been modest at best.  He's far from having proved Burke right for taking him so high.

Kadri is a puzzler.  One part of me agrees with you, but the fact that he's put in more of a consistent effort game in and game out this season (IMO) also speaks to some character solidity.  Of course, I don't know what Shanahan knows and whatever Kadri's doing that's getting him hot water is not what you want to see out of a guy that we all hoped would be a cornerstone. 

I guess for me, if the return was very very good, I'd move him.

 

[mr grieves]

The Leafs could get more out of Kadri if he were a true professional.  Even not getting enough sleep is letting himself, the team, and fans down.  Must be awful tempting to be partying at his age, with his money, with his notoriety.

He's 24 years old, 25 next October. I realize in some respects, that's still somewhat young but they're paying him millions to perform. Shanahan is basically saying "grow up". And the fact that they've effectively been saying this to him for years without a reliable response ... that's sad. Doesn't speak well for his character. Some talent appears to be there but it's currently not a solid character you can reliably build around. That's something this team needs.

I'm close to concluding: sign him to a short term deal and trade him before it's over so you recover something of value.

Worked out well for Boston.

No, there's not Seguin talent there. But there's a heckuva lot of talent there: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/trading-kadri-mistake-maple-leafs/

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

McKenzie mentioned a Horachek quote multiple times on TSN yesterday, something along the lines of he wasn't just late, "he wasn't prepared to practice." and said "draw from that what you will" I get the feeling Naz might be partying a little too hard and they want him to focus more on being prepared professionally.

It's speculation, but I get the sense that's what they were alluding to.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

The Leafs could get more out of Kadri if he were a true professional.  Even not getting enough sleep is letting himself, the team, and fans down.  Must be awful tempting to be partying at his age, with his money, with his notoriety.

He's 24 years old, 25 next October. I realize in some respects, that's still somewhat young but they're paying him millions to perform. Shanahan is basically saying "grow up". And the fact that they've effectively been saying this to him for years without a reliable response ... that's sad. Doesn't speak well for his character. Some talent appears to be there but it's currently not a solid character you can reliably build around. That's something this team needs.

I'm close to concluding: sign him to a short term deal and trade him before it's over so you recover something of value.

Worked out well for Boston.

No, there's not Seguin talent there. But there's a heckuva lot of talent there: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/trading-kadri-mistake-maple-leafs/

Burtch has been saying most of the above for quite some time and I agree completely, the part I quote below is quite remarkable and gets absolutely no coverage in the media who seem quite happy to repeat the same blowhard rhetoric without considering his production comparables. That's just poor journalism, people happy to spew forth an opinion without structuring it carefully.

The last column of the above With or Without You (WOWY) chart highlights the net difference between the impacts of Kadri and his teammates on each other. Looking at the numbers, it's clear that Kadri's impact outweighs that of his compatriots across the board.

If we were to compare Kadri to his peers around the NHL in terms of his offensive production, it might surprise people where he sits in terms of his offence over the past four years. Kadri has produced 2.1 points per 60 minutes at 5v5 since 2011-12. The other NHL centres with the same point production over the same time frame are Joe Thornton, Henrik Sedin, Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterberg, Eric Staal and Nathan MacKinnon. Not exactly a group of skaters you'd want to ship out of town.

 

[mr grieves]

Kadri is a puzzler.  One part of me agrees with you, but the fact that he's put in more of a consistent effort game in and game out this season (IMO) also speaks to some character solidity.  Of course, I don't know what Shanahan knows and whatever Kadri's doing that's getting him hot water is not what you want to see out of a guy that we all hoped would be a cornerstone. 

That's where I am. Teams discipline players for breaking rules. Kadri broke some rules and got disciplined. The end -- but this idea that, because it's being done publicly, the infractions must be so horrible that they can only be symptoms of a deeply flawed, fundamentally and irretrievably immature -- no, selfish -- character that we just can't have on this team is... a bit weird. Because I look at what he's done on the ice, and I see a guy I'd want on my team. Full stop.

So we're left with "well, management knows the full story, way more than they're letting on, and we couldn't possibly..." and I dunno. Didn't I hear a lot, when curious personnel decisions were made over the last several years, about smart professionals with access to all the relevant information making sound judgments based on things we couldn't possibly know? And the team got worse and worse?

I'm starting to think most of what they know that we don't is just run-of-mill office gossip, workplace culture clashes, corporate common sense, and the rest of the stuff that makes companies and schools and movie studios and police departments run poorly.