Kyle Dubas is JFJ 2.0 - Discuss
- Thread starter KW Sluggo
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ZBBM
Active member
All these shots at sluggo are pretty much fair since the original post was way over the top but the thread as a vehicle for more reasoned criticism of Dubas is valuable. He's not beyond criticism.
I think it's fair to at least question whether he got best value on this trade today, on Marleau, etc. Seems to me he is undervaluing Zaitsev, almost certainly Brown, in his quest for cap space.
In the major signings I have no beef. Them's the costs. Marner will be another. Muzzin will be fine IF he's re-signed. Otherwise it was a wasted 1st on a 2-season run.
And the one thing you can't call sluggo out on is the playoff record so far. Which, you know, is somewhat significant.
Anyway, I like Dubas but I don't have some kind of blind faith in his innate genius and The Plan.
I think it's fair to at least question whether he got best value on this trade today, on Marleau, etc. Seems to me he is undervaluing Zaitsev, almost certainly Brown, in his quest for cap space.
In the major signings I have no beef. Them's the costs. Marner will be another. Muzzin will be fine IF he's re-signed. Otherwise it was a wasted 1st on a 2-season run.
And the one thing you can't call sluggo out on is the playoff record so far. Which, you know, is somewhat significant.
Anyway, I like Dubas but I don't have some kind of blind faith in his innate genius and The Plan.
Kin
New member
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
I get that the whole "Nothing else matters in sports but winning when the chips are down" machismo nonsense is an easy sell to meatheads on Fox sports but it's really not true when it comes to what a GM does. Dubas isn't actually responsible for whether or not a team wins a game 7. His job is just to put them in a decent position to do so.
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
He's literally been GM for one year. A year that started with him making maybe the biggest UFA signing in NHL history. The idea that I "must" have meaningful and substantial criticisms of him in his job seems a little soft.
There's nowhere near enough track record to have a real beef with the job he's done.
herman
Well-known member
So far, other than netting Tavares (over some big ticket GMs with decades more experience), he has cleaned up any bad blood with Carrick and Leivo and Corrado from their career-limiting pressboxing, wiped out bad cap term and hits of Marleau and Zaitsev for the cost of a 1st and Brown (who was himself a cap savings option).
He locked in a generational even strength scoring talent at his ground floor, and hasn?t made any obviously bad long term signings to hamstring cap flexibility.
He bet on Sparks but it didn?t work out to expectations. He hasn?t yet landed a RD for the top of the depth chart yet, but he mitigated the loss of Gardiner with a deft trade for Muzzin.
He locked in a generational even strength scoring talent at his ground floor, and hasn?t made any obviously bad long term signings to hamstring cap flexibility.
He bet on Sparks but it didn?t work out to expectations. He hasn?t yet landed a RD for the top of the depth chart yet, but he mitigated the loss of Gardiner with a deft trade for Muzzin.
Guilt Trip
Active member
No issue with Dubas so far. We'll jnow more after this season.
There's definitely room for criticism of Dubas, but there isn't much right now in all honesty. He didn't sign Marleau or Z to bad deals that screwed the Leafs cap flexibility. Hearing Bourne talk about Dubas the way he has in the past he does sound like a guy who really tries to see past a lot of the noise and doesn't commit himself to one type of thinking. I think these traits serve him well in the role. Beyond that it's hard to say what the better options are at this point. I mean, when Clarkson was signed that deal was panned from the get go. JFJ trading Rask for Raycroft was indefensible - even 18 y.o. me was screaming at the tv when that happened. With Dubas there hasn't been a trade where the rationale wasn't both logical and sound, whereas I can think of mountains of evidence to the contrary with JFJ and Burke.herman said:
Kin
New member
herman said:
If someone doesn't like the Zaitsev deal, fair enough. Maybe they like him better than most of us or feel like if you're going to pay Ceci anyway then you might want to try and move him next year instead(despite him being unhappy in his role) whatever.
The idea that you're going to be upset about the Marleau deal seems predicated on the idea that if Dubas had just negotiated harder he could have gotten a better deal when his hands were tied to a ludicrous extent by Marleau's NMC and other teams having to be willing to buy him out. Doubt Dubas all you want on his player decisions but to believe that he made the deal he did when a better one was out there on Marleau is just, well, it's a word I get in trouble when I say.
Guilt Trip
Active member
They thought Pogge was better. I never did from the time I saw Rask at the World JuniorsSignificantly Insignificant said:
Hobbes
New member
Nik the Trik said:
Hindsight is also 20:20
At the time the trade was made, Rask hadn't played a single NHL (or AHL) game and wasn't even #2 on the depth chart. Pogge was (after having just come off a brilliant performance year where he won a bunch of individual awards). Raycroft was coming off a down season after having been excellent the year prior and was viewed as something of a reclamation project.
The premise of the trade from JFJ's point of view at the time was that Pogge was the heir apparent but needed a good NHL starter to shelter him for a few years until he was ready to take over. Rask was the "extra" (having spent that year playing as a back-up in Finland) and expendable.
And then adding to all of that was MLSE (under the teacher's pension plan ownership at the time) didn't have the stomach for a rebuild and wanted JFJ to "win now" so they were more or less forcing him to swing for the fences.
Yes, it was a bad trade that not many liked at the time, but it wasn't that much of a seismic idiocy that seems to be attached to it.