Kyle Dubas is JFJ 2.0 - Discuss

[Kin]

The defence rested on Justin Pogge.

The way I remember it the defense of the deal had less to do with Rask vs. Pogge and more about people genuinely(or optimistically) thinking Raycroft would be a good #1 goalie for some time.

 

[Kin]

Hindsight is also 20:20

I really don't want to relitigate the freaking Andrew Raycroft trade but nah. It sucked at the time. People said so.

And then adding to all of that was MLSE (under the teacher's pension plan ownership at the time) didn't have the stomach for a rebuild and wanted JFJ to "win now" so they were more or less forcing him to swing for the fences.

Now this I do agree with. It's not some sort of crazy coincidence that our opinions of Leafs GMs flipped as soon as they were allowed to pursue a real rebuild. JFJ and Burke and Nonis made bad decisions but so did Lamoriello and Dubas will too I'm sure. The difference is that JFJ, Burke and Nonis were trying to accomplish a ridiculous, impossible and MLSE mandated job.

 

[Bates]

Is that Leaf's wins in a season record holder Raycroft?

 

[ZBBM]

I know, just saying he hasn't proven anything yet when it counts the most.

I get that the whole "Nothing else matters in sports but winning when the chips are down" machismo nonsense is an easy sell to meatheads on Fox sports but it's really not true when it comes to what a GM does. Dubas isn't actually responsible for whether or not a team wins a game 7. His job is just to put them in a decent position to do so.

So, do you have any criticisms of him?  Surely you must.

He's literally been GM for one year. A year that started with him making maybe the biggest UFA signing in NHL history. The idea that I "must" have meaningful and substantial criticisms of him in his job seems a little soft.

There's nowhere near enough track record to have a real beef with the job he's done.

For the benefit of others, I've edited Nik's response to get rid of his usual extraneous strawmen exaggerations that cause the discussion to break down.  Going forward, you'll have to do this for yourselves, of course.

 

[Joe S.]

Can someone please point me to the NHL GM that has had nothing but home runs and universally lauded deals?

And Brian Burke nominating himself doesn?t count.

 

[Joe S.]

JFJ trading Rask for Raycroft was indefensible

Believe me, as a veteran of these boards, I very much wish that had been the case.

It?s true. I remember there was a split on that trade. Some we?re calling it trading an unknown for a known. And there was speculation that they thought pogge was the real deal. This is actually very painful to talk about. Honest to god worst trade in franchise history. Dude is still f?n playing... has made it to the finals twice as a starter. Just... I just can?t.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Is that Leaf's wins in a season record holder Raycroft?

Not anymore. Freddie has tha record and did it in 6 less games lol.

 

[Kin]

For the benefit of others, I've edited Nik's response to get rid of his usual extraneous strawmen exaggerations that cause the discussion to break down.

You literally said that I "must" have criticisms of Dubas. Word for word.

 

[Bates]

Is that Leaf's wins in a season record holder Raycroft?

Not anymore. Freddie has tha record and did it in 6 less games lol.

How the heck did I miss that??

 

[Joe S.]

Is that Leaf's wins in a season record holder Raycroft?

Not anymore. Freddie has tha record and did it in 6 less games lol.

No... no you didn?t just post that.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Is that Leaf's wins in a season record holder Raycroft?

Not anymore. Freddie has tha record and did it in 6 less games lol.

No... no you didn?t just post that.

What am I missing?

 

[KW Sluggo]

Why would any person care about MLSE paying Zaitsev's signing bonus?

And yes, that's what I'm pulling out of that post. Others can take care of the other parts. 

Only because the whole reason for getting rid of Zaitsev was his contract - yes, Zaitsev wanted out but frankly that's his problem -- and paying $3M undermines that purpose.

 

[KW Sluggo]

Not even worth replying to.

Nor are you.

 

[KW Sluggo]

JVR, Bozak, Marleau were all Lamoriello decisions. So should this thread not be re-titled?

No because getting rid of them for absolutely nothing were not Lou's decisions.

 

[KW Sluggo]

RIP Jake Muzzin

Pretty much.

Another guy we over paid for.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

JVR, Bozak, Marleau were all Lamoriello decisions. So should this thread not be re-titled?

No because getting rid of them for absolutely nothing were not Lou's decisions.

Lou was the GM for Bozak/JVR's last season. Unless you're upset Dubas didn't trade their rights after the season finished.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

RIP Jake Muzzin

Pretty much.

Another guy we over paid for.

You don't think he's a top-4 defenceman?

 

[KW Sluggo]

The short answer is no.  Dubas is 1 year into the job.

He's basically made 2 trades - Muzzin for a 1st+ which was a good move, and a 1st to get out of the Marleau contract, which was rough but necessary to make room for Kap/Mango/Marner.

JFJ traded Rask for Raycroft, and a 1st for Toskala.

They're not even in the same stratosphere at the moment.

At the moment, but give it time, Dubas is just starting out.

That said, he has already dealt away two first rounders, one of which went as a "sweetener".

 

[Bender]

The short answer is no.  Dubas is 1 year into the job.

He's basically made 2 trades - Muzzin for a 1st+ which was a good move, and a 1st to get out of the Marleau contract, which was rough but necessary to make room for Kap/Mango/Marner.

JFJ traded Rask for Raycroft, and a 1st for Toskala.

They're not even in the same stratosphere at the moment.

At the moment, but give it time, Dubas is just starting out.

That said, he has already dealt away two first rounders, one of which went as a "sweetener".

Tough pill to swallow but let's not blame the GM who, you know, signed those insane contracts in the first place.

 

[KW Sluggo]

A smarter strategy would have been to peg the Tavares contract as the the maximum contract with other players having to line up under that amount. Dubas did not do so with Matthews, he overpaid Nylander and now faces the same problem with Marner.

This, of course, is true. It would have been much smarter if Dubas had gone with the very very smart and well considered strategy of...paying players less than they want.

I guess you forgot that Lou did exactly that with Brodeur being the top contract in NJ and the Bruins did it with Bourque contract.  I guess you think they are the amateurs.